Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

For all foil kite riders
User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 10256
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 319 times

Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:27 pm

Hi - I have searched and looked in the long Peak4 thread, as I remember a discussion about whether it sinks to say 1 meter, as one said, but I cant find it.

Would make a new thread, easier this way, instead of a 157 page long thread....

Today wind went from 8 knots, to almost zero, when out with the 8 m2 Peak4, managed to pull and loop myself to low water, but then the wind died totally and it went down.

Okay, now I had the chance to test the "sinking".

I let my bar stay on the board, and went to the kite.

Pushed it down into the water, after having pushed all air out of the front tube.

It stayed in the surface, but not OVER the surface.

Then I took the lines, a bit away from the kite, and pulled a bit, then it began to sink slightly indeed, like some has said he experiened.

Might be coincidence that it had an angle so it was pulled down, and not stayed in the surface - I think so.

I also noticed, that the bridles and pulleys was on the bottom, it was 3 feet deep only, so they are sinking slowly.

Now I also had the chance to practice deep water pack down in low water, and found one way that worked great:

Start with one tip, lift the TE corner up, and push the water out.

Then start rolling the kite from the tip, but lift the LE up now, to empty water, just before you roll it.

This will go quite easy once you have got it.

Dont roll from both sides, just continue all the way to the other tip, and then again lift the TE corner of the other tip to empty it, reversed to the LE.

Worked brilliantly.

If you just try to roll the kite when it is fully in the water, you will be in trouble, I found out, did not work well, almost impossible.

But super easy when emptying the tip first, and then lifting the LE free of water while rolling, went quite fast this way.

8) Peter
These users thanked the author Peter_Frank for the post:
LeoLeal (Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:18 pm)
Rating: 8.33%

airsail
Frequent Poster
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:57 am
Weight: 80kg
Local Beach: Queens Beach North, Queensland, Australia
Favorite Beaches: Queens North, I don’t travel much
Style: Foiling
Gear: Sonic 2, Soul, BRM Clouds
Lift and Levitaz foils
Carbonco and North boards
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby airsail » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:56 pm

Had a few deep water pack downs with my Peak 4 4mtr when I owned it. Sunk twice, luckily only a few inches under water by the time I got to it. The water conditions are quite rough so it got swamped quickly. This also makes rolling up difficult as there is a lot of water movement so balancing on the board is difficult.
Ended up carrying a light mesh bag with me, easy to stuff the kite in the bag and swim in. Tried swimming in without the bag one day, bloody hard if you haven’t rolled it up perfectly as any loose ripstop tends to work it’s way out and turn into a sea anchor.
Brilliant kite for foiling, loved it but our location just wasn’t suitable for the slightly more than occasional swim ins. Crashes were the result of bungled tacks, the kite turns 180 on you in a split second and in the water before you have time to sort it. Keeping back line tension is an absolute must for a relaunch.

joriws
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1022
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:03 am
Gear: Flysurfer, HQ, Moses, Nobile, North, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby joriws » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:39 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:27 pm
Pushed it down into the water, after having pushed all air out of the front tube.
It stayed in the surface, but not OVER the surface.
Then I took the lines, a bit away from the kite, and pulled a bit, then it began to sink slightly indeed, like some has said he experiened.

Now I also had the chance to practice deep water pack down in low water, and found one way that worked great:
If you just try to roll the kite when it is fully in the water, you will be in trouble, I found out, did not work well, almost impossible.
What do you mean "pushed all air out of the front tube"? Actively submerging kite? What front *tube*, rib formed scoop or something else?

Surely buoy balance is somewhere with kite fully on top of water and fully submerged, meaning how much fabric is out of water due to plastic rib enforced "scoop" (non-buoyant if in the air pushing in water parts down) and how much kite is in water to go for balance point for buoyancy.

Maybe water current have something to do with sinking. But first to sink Peak I think you must have let kite to lay on water (stomach or back), which is against rule #1, do not ever let lines loose so that wind can get inside the kite to keep it constantly open and sit on LE or TE. If Peak4 in taco position wind should still get inside the kite if minor gap between folded half of fabrics, with small line tension try to "lure" kite open again. But if top fabric on windside edge is submerged it will not work. If you let kite go flat and lines loose, maybe then if bridles are sinking it pulls the kite edge a bit submerged (you need only 1mm submerged), and if you pull the lines (or current pulls it), it will pull kite down.

It could even be that water temperature affects floating of Peak and it's dyneema and maybe more the mixer pulleys at dyneema bridles. The closer water is to 4C the better kite or mixer/dyneema floats.

I disagree a bit on pack down "when full on water". Peak does not have pockets to keep water inside except the tip cells. So if you empty most water from tip cells, even roll the kite up with kite fully submerged, do not S-bend it to keep water inside but lift above water starting from LE-side (to avoid water sticking to LE-side "scoop") you should be able to lift kite out as water should exit TE because there is nothing preventing it. So gravity will empty kite while you work your way LE to TE lifting it up. You can bend/roll LE towards TE the kite as you go but do it above water.

But this is purely theoretical but I need experiment also on my side with Peak4. I've a couple of times water packed Sonic1 15m which is naturally harder as you cannot drain the kite like with Peak you should be able. But on closed cell kites the problem is water inside the cells, not between the fabrics (outside of the cells).

merl
Frequent Poster
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: Mixed, flysurfer peak, concept air pulsion, wave & firefly, various LEIs. Mostly HF these days.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby merl » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:25 pm

+1 on making more specific threads for the peak 4.

Coincidentally I had my first swim in with my 5m yesterday. A huge wind hole and it fell down like an autumn leaf. Landed in a heap so I decided to swim the 200m in. I maybe put too much tension in the lines as I wound them in so it sank a bit, but not completely. Net time I would swim to the kite before winding. Then I followed my instinct and did as Peter - rolled the kite from one tip to the other. I emptied the tip, but ended up winding the rest of it under the water, which unfortunately traps water in the kite. It was still manageable (it was only the 5m) and I swam it in without major dramas, but next time I would be careful to roll it up above the water.

One difference might be that I don't/can't sit on my board, which I guess makes it harder. The board is low volume (25mm), short (110) but quite wide (48cm) so I never learned to sit on it (it does not feel easy). Peter, did you sit on your board as you rolled the kite?

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 183 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby tomtom » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:32 pm

just try it - sit on board. I have 90x40x15mm and it is doable. Its more about controlling your board than sitting

Tomlutz
Medium Poster
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:17 pm
Kiting since: 2018
Weight: 83
Local Beach: Switzerland
Gear: TT, Foil Moses Onda, Soul 21, Soul 12, Soul 8, Trigger 9, Pansh Genesis, Concept Air Pulsion 18m, Peak 13, Volt 13
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby Tomlutz » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Thanks Frank. I am happy with a Paraglider wrapping method: I begin by lifting the LE at the center out of the water from behind of the kite, water just flows out, this is easy. Then I take in the both sides simultaneously folding it like an accordion, not rolling. Only after having pulled together both sides I roll from the LE to the TE, this way I can squeeze out remaining water. - Tom

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 10256
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 319 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:22 pm

As Merl confirmed, I found it really difficult (in fact I remember it as almost impossible) to roll when IN the water, but when just lifting the open front cells above the water one or two at a time so they drain, while rolling so they drain, makes it quite easy.
After having drained the tip first, most important, as it is not open like the front cells so even more important.

Regarding pushing the air out, I meant from the open front cells, as if you got a Peak4 "down", there will be a bit of air trapped in some of the open cells - I made sure there was none, for my "sinking or floating" test.

In theory one should be able to roll the kite when under water - in real life, not so :roll:

From one end and pushing the water out just above the water, easy :thumb:

8) Peter

merl
Frequent Poster
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: Mixed, flysurfer peak, concept air pulsion, wave & firefly, various LEIs. Mostly HF these days.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby merl » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:52 pm

tomtom wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:32 pm
just try it - sit on board. I have 90x40x15mm and it is doable. Its more about controlling your board than sitting
Thanks for the encouragement - I tried briefly, but the feeling was that the board was too wide (48cm) - but I am forgetting that I have general problems with flexibility in my hips, so it might just be me...

User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1470
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 218 times
Been thanked: 427 times

Re: Flysurfer Peak4 sinking or floating and packdown.

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:04 pm

My board is too small to sit on. I find it much easier to basically lay across it broadside so the board is under my chest and underarms with the foil more or less straight down. The board has enough float that I don't need to use my legs to stay afloat and can just let them extent behind me as not to kick my foil. My arms are then free across the board to deal with the kite. You must always approach the kite from the side, not coming down wind at it as to avoid messing up the bridle or getting it caught around the foil. Another tactic I have used is to stay between my foil and the kite and keep the board on its side. Mine will stay that way and will not swim off downwind anything like it can when flat.

On a general note, the kites are pretty much neutrally buoyant. They will easily remain on the surface if the cupped LE is catching the breeze (provided there is enough). This will slowly drag the rest of the kite up along the surface as it makes its way downwind. Even in real wind, I find this surprisingly relaxed in pace and pressure. The bridles have sunk on me before, but only when there really is no wind or I have pulled the lines when the kite has not flattened on the surface so it pulls fabric in a sea anchor fashion and submerges the canopy in general.

These points and how to efficiently, safely and easily pack up for a swim are all readily learned by anyone who thinks it through and takes the time to practice a little.

I have had a total of one failed relaunch out of about 15 so far. Many of them with the kite flattening out on the water for a few moments. That failed one was about a 30 m swim in to the break was and I suspect the refraction waves from the wall and lack of wind down low were my downfall on that one.

Suffice to say. I feel pretty confident in my relaunch with the Peak4s. Worst case scenario is an in water reset, which I have had to do a few times. That all being said, I do not simply recommend these kites for everyone. Most people are still gun shy with strutless inflatables due to perceived relaunch issues where there really are none.
These users thanked the author jumptheshark for the post:
merl (Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:40 am)
Rating: 8.33%


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests