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Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:11 pm

tomtom wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:27 am
Simply put - Peaks are not more powerful m2 to m2 than Souls/FRS - they are about equal /max 10% difference/

Maybe if you are inexperienced Peak can have more accesible power at lower kite speed.

FRS have much better handling than Soul. FRS 9 is faster turning than both 8 Soul and 8m Peak. Soul have best aerodynamical performance.

Hmmm, but odd, as one should expect a double skin kite to have more (peak) power and pull, but maybe the difference is so small, that it cant be felt, and also made even because Peak4 is lighter thus even more power on demand.

Sorry, I am not convinced a heavier kite (air mass or fabric) can give more start pull in light winds, as I think you can not utilize "pinwheeling" to assemble energy that can be shot for the start - as you lose the same or more than you could gain is my take.

So in the small sizes, there are hardly any difference size by size in power, whereas in medium and bigger sizes there are, double skin high AR has more power.

Good to get input so we know, without having tried "everything" ourselves :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby seppalord » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:14 pm

Janus wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:39 am
seppalord wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:36 pm
Hi Peter, I have the same specs (wight and wing) and I guess my lowend is at ~9 knots with the p4 - 8m. I fly most of the time with 18m lines.

I'm considering a closed cell for twintip action. I hardly touched it the last 2 years, but when the conditions are right I would like to go out boosting from time to time.

I don't look for a kite with more lowend, rather then a kite with more versatility. Hence the question, what would fit my existing peak range of 4 and 5 m the best?
What are your boosting TT wind conditions? and weight?
Thanks for the tips and sorry for the highjack.

Jumping with TT, inland lake gusty consitions and 78kg. After 4m p4 is getting too much to foil, I would like to switch to tt.
I know there is a 3m p4 which could extend my foilrange in high wind conditions :rollgrin:

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Janus » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:46 pm

Seppalord,
I can only speak for the Soul's, I suggest the 8m for boosting with TT, can be used with foil too.. to learn new things at 8-10kts..
About the inland lake.. if it is really small and gusty nothing will work.. the difference between lulls and gusts will be too big.. if it is possible to kite with tubes it will be possible with the Souls too, it will be possible longer with the Souls than with the tubes. (trim the Souls more stable; A,B-1cm,C-2cm)
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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Oldman_Dave » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 pm

My friend is very experienced with souls. He is 20kgs lighter on a slightly smaller but still large surf Moses wing. We foil together a lot. This is what happens:

Me 4m peak = him 6m soul
5m peak = 8m soul
6m peak = 12m soul
13m peak = 12m soul

I have tried a few kites for the absolute low end. Cloud, trip, chrono in 12m. Now 13m peak. I'm still not convinced, I'm hoping to try 10m Nova Ultralight for the role next.

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:30 pm

Oldman_Dave wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 pm
My friend is very experienced with souls. He is 20kgs lighter on a slightly smaller but still large surf Moses wing. We foil together a lot. This is what happens:

Me 4m peak = him 6m soul
5m peak = 8m soul
6m peak = 12m soul
13m peak = 12m soul

I have tried a few kites for the absolute low end. Cloud, trip, chrono in 12m. Now 13m peak. I'm still not convinced, I'm hoping to try 10m Nova Ultralight for the role next.

Interesting, as this corresponds somewhat to what I experienced, not at all the same size chosen in the same wind/weight/foil.

Soul users takes a LOT bigger kite.

And he is even 20 kg lighter, although a tad smaller wing you say.

Then again, tomtom says they have the same power for the same size :roll:

Is it because Soul users typically WANT to ride in the upper end (which is a lot higher I assume), so loads of margin in lulls?
Whereas Peak4 users go for the sweetspot, actually lower than the sweetspot if the next size is an 8 m2.

So we get tricked when seing the difference in sizes used, between kitefoilers?


Also, those choosing a Peak, are usually those having fun carving and in waves, whereas many Soul users might be more "allround" and jump and speed minded maybe?
Could also explain, if two different target groups :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby drsurf » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:41 pm

Peak4 in waves, hard to do this with any other kite :D

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:25 pm

NIIIIIICE drsurf !!!

At first (part) some might think: Should that be something special?

But try doing this with a LEI in this light wind (or other foilkites except FireFly's maybe), and you will be shocked :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby a99 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:04 pm

[/b]
drsurf wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:41 pm
Peak4 in waves, hard to do this with any other kite :D
Nice! Which peak size in this video?

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby airsail » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Peaks fly very deep in the window, meaning more of the canopy is exposed to the apparent wind. Souls fly much higher in the window, less canopy exposed thus normally using a larger size. Also means the Soul is better upwind.
When I get on my 15 mtr Sonic, it screams upwind, in wind strengths others would be on a 5 mtr Peak, Sonics are very thin, little of the canopy is exposed as it cuts upwind.

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:17 pm

Correct, but this still doesn't mean they got less power, which some find they got, others don't...

We don't care about upwind in waves or carving fun, as any low AR foil also screams upwind with ANY kite, and never really needed more, so no problem :thumb:

8) Peter


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