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Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby LeoLeal » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:35 pm

a99 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:04 pm
[/b]
drsurf wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:41 pm
Peak4 in waves, hard to do this with any other kite :D
Nice! Which peak size in this video?
5m².
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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:02 am

I am still amazed at how the 4 m2 sometimes works great in only 12-13 knots (78 kg 1200 Ketos wing) unbelievable, like today :rollgrin:
FB_IMG_1608332256940.jpg
8) Peter

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Oldman_Dave » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:18 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:30 pm
Oldman_Dave wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 pm
My friend is very experienced with souls. He is 20kgs lighter on a slightly smaller but still large surf Moses wing. We foil together a lot. This is what happens:

Me 4m peak = him 6m soul
5m peak = 8m soul
6m peak = 12m soul
13m peak = 12m soul

I have tried a few kites for the absolute low end. Cloud, trip, chrono in 12m. Now 13m peak. I'm still not convinced, I'm hoping to try 10m Nova Ultralight for the role next.

Interesting, as this corresponds somewhat to what I experienced, not at all the same size chosen in the same wind/weight/foil.

Soul users takes a LOT bigger kite.

And he is even 20 kg lighter, although a tad smaller wing you say.

Then again, tomtom says they have the same power for the same size :roll:

Is it because Soul users typically WANT to ride in the upper end (which is a lot higher I assume), so loads of margin in lulls?
Whereas Peak4 users go for the sweetspot, actually lower than the sweetspot if the next size is an 8 m2.

So we get tricked when seing the difference in sizes used, between kitefoilers?


Also, those choosing a Peak, are usually those having fun carving and in waves, whereas many Soul users might be more "allround" and jump and speed minded maybe?
Could also explain, if two different target groups :wink:

8) Peter
So it's really interesting and a bit ironic after posting my comparison things are changing.
My friend messages yesterday that he had a great session on the soul 6m in 15kts. This would have been 8m previously and maybe even 12m with his previous 590 wing (now 679 I think).

Then today I took 6m peak in gusty light conditions which were varying a lot 7 -15kts. He took 6m soul. From my observation the 6m soul seemed as good or maybe even the better kite when back to back.

I had a swim in early as I got on a wave in a lull and slacked the lines.

I think you might be onto something, it's a case of leaving to love the smaller kites with some soul users.

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:57 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:35 pm
...
I have always been sure the 4-5-6 m2 racefoil (or other double skin relatively okay performant foil kites Soul or similar) kites would give you even better lowend, than the Peak4 or FireFly kites.
On cost of ease and drift of course - but that is not the topic here, only how low can you go.

But when reading in here, and talking to friends, and seeing what they ride, something seems odd, as they seem to need a bigger kite than us using Peak4 kites, even with the same foilwing...

The more peak power (for its size) a kite can generate, the lower wind you can foil.

In the medium sizes 10 to 12 m2, nothing beats the racefoil kites in terms of lowend, because of that.

But in supersmall sizes (I dont know it there ARE racefoilkites below 7 m2?) it does not seem to be the same, or what do you guys/girls say?
...
Hi Peter,
I used a sonic(1&2) 6,3 m² quite a lot, just the last year I turned to ride more and more the Peaks. Actually I have a
- 6,5 m² Peak4 on 14 m² line
- 6,3 m² Sonic2 on 13 m² line
laying around and maybe one day I can make a pretty fair 1:1 compare.

But anyway no doupt about the result, which as always depends from further issues:

As long the freerace kite has enough line length for a clean loop, there is nothing that can beat it for the start. And as long you have a very low drag at least medium speed foil you may start and also ride. If line lenght starts to be to short which can be for the 6,3 m² already at < 11 m then it can be that the Peak starts to win as a 6,5 m² Peak should be still fine to loop with only 10 m line.
And as also named there is a further aspect, when already flying the hydrofoil and it is too draggy it could be that the race kite will be slowed down that it can't generate enough pull to level the high foil drag. Already had this experience with a 9 m² Sonic and a 1500 cm² surf foil: Loop start no problem but after that dropping again, and the same again and again, as not enought line length for flying sinus. Could be, also here a Peak in the same sizes could win, maybe.

But if you want to do a longer excursion along the coast around islands with changing winds where you may find just 9 knts but also gust up to 35 knts and maybe have to go 10 km direct upwind ... there is just no doupt which kite to take. :D

The same but the other way around when looking for a long unhooked downwinder in decent swell. Nice to have both options 8)
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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby geron » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:32 pm

Horst, this may make your decision more difficult jaja
(To both questions jaja)

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Kitedougiefresh » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:48 am

Oldman_Dave wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 pm


I have tried a few kites for the absolute low end. Cloud, trip, chrono in 12m. Now 13m peak. I'm still not convinced, I'm hoping to try 10m Nova Ultralight for the role next.
Have you considered the Pulsion 18M? That is what i am on now after selling my 13M Peak.

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby jaros » Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:56 am

geron wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Horst, this may make your decision more difficult jaja
(To both questions jaja)
Hi Geron,
I am really interested in hearing more about this and i am sure that I am not the only one...
Thanks!
Jaros

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby Adventure Logs » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:34 pm

jaros wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:56 am
geron wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Horst, this may make your decision more difficult jaja
(To both questions jaja)
Hi Geron,
I am really interested in hearing more about this and i am sure that I am not the only one...
Thanks!
Jaros
I think that’s a star correct? If so, been around for a little while. Much higher AR so better upwind performance but won’t drift well which is where a Peak shines. I’d love to fly one though.

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:00 pm

Seems funny to reach for more upwind performance from a single skin. We have plenty of options for that. If the star could peel off the wind and keep its shape without issues when you lose line tension, Then you might have something, but just looking at it, I can imagine the serpentine shapes it can make when slack.

SS is all about drift, response, and stability in a larger portion of the wind window.

The hydrofoil already solved the upwind part.

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Re: Kitefoil, double skin - single skin Peak/FireFly?

Postby geron » Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:19 am

Hello, I bought the 7m and the 3m race star+ from Born kites and have been using them and trying to understand them (the peaks have been left to rest in most days, I have only used the 4m peak once because there was onshore, large waves and a shallow beach (wasnt sure I could start with the 3m born kite); in retrospect, I think that the Born 3m can start foiling in as low wind as the 4m Peak???... I am still learning: the higher aspect 3m kite is a lot more sensitive to trim, faster, has a stronger spike force (starting with a loop is very powerfull but I still have to get used to it to take advantage of it).
Drifting, they are much better than one would expect, the outside steering lines are more inside so that the kite always returns to its shape and doesnt twist with slack lines (the tips of the kite never get tangled with the lines); also, they are equivalent in weight square meter per square meter to the peak.
Upwind is very good and better than the peaks (it might be much better).
The handling of them is different than the peaks and there are still much for me to learn.
Water relaunch is more difficult if you need to drift launch.

Sorry, it is difficult for me to do a proper evaluation and I am still learning, if someone should like to get one, the 5m might be a grate size, the wind range is better than the peaks (so better low end and better high end also, dont know how much better...)
Last edited by geron on Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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