Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Soul V2?

For all foil kite riders
User avatar
Adventure Logs
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:18 pm
Local Beach: Punta del Diablo, Uruguay
Favorite Beaches: Durban, SA
Corpus Christi
Gear: Flysurfer, Moses, Groove, Slinghot, Nobile, Zeeko
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Soul V2?

Postby Adventure Logs » Sat May 01, 2021 10:58 am

Kristan wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:19 am

And I say that the bar pressure was biiiitch. It was so hard it pinched nerves in my elbows during transitions, which was quite painful. It's a good thing that Soul is quite static kite and doesn't require much sining, but when it does, if wind drops, that's when it turns into a gym session, rather than kiting. Whenever I go off the water for a mid session break, what was tired the most were not my legs, abs or back, but the arms. And I definitely weren't able to control it with one arm on the bar. Folks have suggested that I should lengthen some lines in the bridles to reduce the bar pressure, but I didn't arse to do that. Yet that option could've been made tunable on V2 like it is on LEIs.

High bar pressure was one of the main reasons why I got rid of the Soul. Now I have a LEI kite and the bar pressure on it was feathery, which felt really weird, so I have set it up for higher bar pressure and it was still not as hard as it was on Soul.
Wow you must be a sensitive person. I will admit the higher bar pressure at first from being used to the Sonic2 took some getting used to but it's still lower than most LEIs. Now I actually prefer it over the slightly vague lightness of my Sonic3. Goes to prove, we like what we are used to. I think part of the reason for the higher bar pressure is towards the end of the wing tips the Z level is on the trailing edge. Of course this means the Soul has tighter turns unlike the Sonic3 which more pivots.

Was shortening the steering lines a cm or two too much effort for you? If so then I'm sure adjusting the bridle must have been WAY too much to ask.
Gestalt wrote:
I'm getting a new Sonic3 11m and 15m and wondering what size bar to get for both? I take it 55cm-60cm for the 15m, but what is ideal for a 11m?

Also in the Soulv2 video looked like it was flown with 26m line lengths? Not sure if that was just one person or everyone. I thought standard infinity bar line length is 20m. Wondering what kind of impact that has, and what people prefer.
You can get away with the 50cm bar(what I use with my Sonic3 11m) and have used the same size with my Soul 15m but might as well get a bar that works for both so go for the 60cm. Something of a warning with the larger bars with smaller Sonics is you'll have a tendency to stall a wing tip easier if you really crank the bar. Some like to do this(I do), it will spiral without power, but takes some time to get used to and when you are at the lower limit of the wind range, it can be counterproductive.

In the Soul2 vid, the guy with the long lines prefered it. FS is still recommending 20m lines with the larger sizes.
cwood wrote: Better low end on a TT might be debatable. I'm a foiler and booster and the Souls have better power spike. Definitely lower bar pressure though.
I would say on twintip, the Sonic3 will have a better lowend because you can crank the kite up and build the apparent wind and produce more power compared to the Soul. On hydrofoil, after quite amount of time with my Sonic3, I believe that the Soul is better than the Sonic3 unless you are racing or jumping. With the power spike of the Soul, you can rig a smaller kite which for me is more fun. I primarily foil strapless on a micro board in the surf so it suits me fantastically.
Kristan wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:40 pm
I believe said Canadians in review had the kites for quite awhile, but were under NDA to give any info about it. At least I know that one of them have tested it a week ago. So it's most likely that those kites went through the breakdown process.
The wing tip folding in issue that you can see and they spoke about in the video is VERY unusual behavior out of a Soul. This is why I think the bridle hasn't been completely bedded in and still needs more breaking in.

The video was missing a couple to me important aspects so I'll be covering that in mine once I can finally get ahold of one. Kinda pissed they were able to get them before release date but oh well.

I was hoping the stiffer fabric would help reduce the slight lag in turning and I hope it does help the drift, they didn't cover that.

I think people were expecting a Sonic2 -> Sonic3 kind of upgrade but it really is more of a SonicFR-> Sonic2 upgrade. FS has done this before with the Speed3 -> Speed4 Lotus and the cloth really did make a difference. The Lotus fabric really has a huge step forward though and I don't expect the same with this TX-Light stuff. It's nice though they addressed the issues like stronger seams, easier bridle adjustment, and more adjustability.

As someone else mentioned earlier, I would love a Soul PRO or something which isn't built like a tank for beginners They have done UL versions in the past and I think it would be fantastic!
These users thanked the author Adventure Logs for the post:
Gestalt (Sat May 01, 2021 1:06 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

User avatar
Soleas
Frequent Poster
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:42 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Style: SoL style
Gear: Epic kites, Flysurfer kites, Prolimit
Brand Affiliation: Epickites kiteboarding
Location: Cyprus, Epickites team, Kiteflex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby Soleas » Sat May 01, 2021 11:54 am

Kristan i think you would be better off with a 60cm bar. I flew a 12m once on a 50cm bar and it was kinda slow and the owner asked me to check if everything was ok with the kite. He had to really pull the bar hard for it to turn so I recommended a 60cm bar. A week later i found a happy smiling man on his 12m Soul and a 60cm bar. He thanked me 10 times that day as the difference in turning the kite was night and day compared to the 50cm. I tried the kite on the 60cm and it was turning as easy as my 10m. I have mine on 55cm bar. I have a 60cm laying around so i will try it on my 10m.

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby kitexpert » Sat May 01, 2021 12:32 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:58 am

Was shortening the steering lines a cm or two too much effort for you? If so then I'm sure adjusting the bridle must have been WAY too much to ask.

In the Soul2 vid, the guy with the long lines prefered it. FS is still recommending 20m lines with the larger sizes.


I was hoping the stiffer fabric would help reduce the slight lag in turning and I hope it does help the drift, they didn't cover that.

I think people were expecting a Sonic2 -> Sonic3 kind of upgrade but it really is more of a SonicFR-> Sonic2 upgrade. FS has done this before with the Speed3 -> Speed4 Lotus and the cloth really did make a difference. The Lotus fabric really has a huge step forward though and I don't expect the same with this TX-Light stuff. It's nice though they addressed the issues like stronger seams, easier bridle adjustment, and more adjustability.

As someone else mentioned earlier, I would love a Soul PRO or something which isn't built like a tank for beginners They have done UL versions in the past and I think it would be fantastic!
Shortening steering lines 2cm equals 2cm of bar movement. So it is very small adjustment, for big kite you can't notice it at all. 5-10cm makes more sense. With trimmer you have all the time possibility to change front line/back line ratio ca. 20cm. But of course with trimmer you can make steering lines only longer (relatively) so having them a bit short may be reasonable. However steering lines tend to shrink anyway

20m lines with a foil kite means kite is about 25m away from you, at least. So compared to usual line lengths with LEI's it is still quite long, but I think it is quite correct length.

Stiffer fabric won't help drift or increase turning speed. Inner parts which are under tension are already designed to be stiff. One good example is Falcon XT kite which uses hard and strong fabric in those parts. When soft lotus fabric came FS claimed it balloons very well and gives clean wing etc., which is apparently correct. But IMO biggest advancement of new fabrics is much better durability than dlx cloth had.

In general drift is secondary or tertiary property or design goal of high performance foil kite, it will be what it will be. Of course FS designs usable kites with acceptable stability - that means kite will have some drift capabilities also.

Foil kites are slow to turn, that is almost impossible to change. If you increase canopy curve or make AR lower you will lose quite a lot foil kite advantages. Small foil kites are fast enough for most but never as fast as similar sized LEI kites.

Big foil kites suffer slowness most and because it is a weight (inertia) issue it can't be helped. But they are park-and-ride kites for lower winds so it is not that significant thing. You can always use for example 17m LEI and loop it easily etc. but it will lose same size foil kite in some other respects.

User avatar
Adventure Logs
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:18 pm
Local Beach: Punta del Diablo, Uruguay
Favorite Beaches: Durban, SA
Corpus Christi
Gear: Flysurfer, Moses, Groove, Slinghot, Nobile, Zeeko
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Soul V2?

Postby Adventure Logs » Sat May 01, 2021 1:22 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 12:32 pm

Shortening steering lines 2cm equals 2cm of bar movement. So it is very small adjustment, for big kite you can't notice it at all. 5-10cm makes more sense. With trimmer you have all the time possibility to change front line/back line ratio ca. 20cm. But of course with trimmer you can make steering lines only longer (relatively) so having them a bit short may be reasonable. However steering lines tend to shrink anyway

Stiffer fabric won't help drift or increase turning speed. Inner parts which are under tension are already designed to be stiff. One good example is Falcon XT kite which uses hard and strong fabric in those parts. When soft lotus fabric came FS claimed it balloons very well and gives clean wing etc., which is apparently correct. But IMO biggest advancement of new fabrics is much better durability than dlx cloth had.
I’m going to disagree with you here. First off, FS themselves has recommended UP TO 2cm shorter steering lines. This only helps in reality with the bar trimmed to full power, completely pulled in but it DOES make a big differences, no matter the size(In my experience riding the Soul 6, 8, 10, and 15m).

Second stiffness can make a big impact on drift because the kite will hold its shape better which foilkites have a tendency to have a problem with. Why the Soul drifts better than older gens is because it doesn’t distort as much when riding into it. If the stiffness improves this even more then it WILL improve drift.

Also in theory, a stiffer shape would turn slightly better. If there’s less flex in the canopy, then a turning movement would transfer faster. We shall see.

Kristan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:50 am
Local Beach: Plescheevo lake
Favorite Beaches: Mejvodnoye, Crimea
Style: Freeride
Gear: Kites: Eleveight XS 14m, Paraavis Smile 3 15m. Boards: Crazyfly Raptor 140x42, Flysurfer Flydoor4 170x50
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Russia, Moscow
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby Kristan » Sat May 01, 2021 2:43 pm

Soleas wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:54 am
Kristan i think you would be better off with a 60cm bar. I flew a 12m once on a 50cm bar and it was kinda slow and the owner asked me to check if everything was ok with the kite. He had to really pull the bar hard for it to turn so I recommended a 60cm bar. A week later i found a happy smiling man on his 12m Soul and a 60cm bar. He thanked me 10 times that day as the difference in turning the kite was night and day compared to the 50cm. I tried the kite on the 60cm and it was turning as easy as my 10m. I have mine on 55cm bar. I have a 60cm laying around so i will try it on my 10m.
I have considered the option of buying the wider bar, but turning speed and heavy bar pressure were not the only issues that I had with Soul, so I have decided that it's just not worth it. Plus I can't just go and dish out 500$ on a new bar whenever I want, since that's pretty close to my monthly income. As for 50cm bar, that's what was recommended size of the bar on the Flysurfer website, so me and your buddy fell to that lie.

cwood
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Local Beach: Southern Ontario
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: Moses, Flysurfer
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby cwood » Sat May 01, 2021 6:56 pm

PabloQ wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:36 am
cwood wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 12:10 am

All relative! I was in the video and am a Soul and Sonic owner. Soul 2 is same as 1 and both are waaay heavier than Sonic. High AR=less bar pressure....its physics.
Consult, since you have both models. I have in mind that due to its characteristics the sonic has a greater hang time, but the peaks of heights are less? I imagine him being slower at the controls when passing the window and being less aggressive at the moment of jumping and getting the energy to flow upwards. What reference can you give me. Thanks
Sonic is a much better boosting experience! Soul is good but Sonic is better performance wise, hang time etc.
These users thanked the author cwood for the post:
Gestalt (Sat May 01, 2021 8:00 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

Ice101
Frequent Poster
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:06 am
Gear: Free ride want to branch into strapless riding and more freestyle
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby Ice101 » Sat May 01, 2021 8:59 pm

Think I need a sonic 3 11m. Have the soul 10m but a little higher performance would be great.

cwood
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Local Beach: Southern Ontario
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: Moses, Flysurfer
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby cwood » Sat May 01, 2021 9:37 pm

Ice101 wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:59 pm
Think I need a sonic 3 11m. Have the soul 10m but a little higher performance would be great.
Highly unlikely you would regret that.

apollo4000
Frequent Poster
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:27 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Camber / Lancing / Whitstable
Favorite Beaches: The next one
Style: trying hard
Gear: All sorts
Brand Affiliation: Nope. Just a regular Joe.
Has thanked: 122 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby apollo4000 » Sat May 01, 2021 10:01 pm

Kristan wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:36 pm
Have not watched it yet, but here ya go.

I didn’t expect that…more objective than I expected. Good for them.

It’s great in gusts..
..It’s no good in gusts..
..Lighter bar pressure..
..Heavy bar pressure.
..fills out quicker..
..fills out slower..
.turns faster..
..turns slower..
..nice colours
..not nice colours….at least they didn’t try the old ‘boosts higher’ angle..or did they??

If you have a v1 you’ll be happy there’s no compelling feature you missing out on
If you don’t, v2 will be a great kite to buy and no worse than the brilliant v1

And if you have a vested interest in flogging FS.. you know who you are…you may have your work cutout for you. Lol.

sonny2727
Medium Poster
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:21 pm
Gear: North, Ozone, Taaroa, Shinn, Flysurfer, Moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Soul V2?

Postby sonny2727 » Sat May 01, 2021 10:06 pm

There's no one size fits all...Sonic 3 way better booster on hydrofoil, race wings..
On a pocket board soul would be better on slow wings like 633 but I'd get a different kite for this , something lighter and more agile ..why bother with Soul..
As for bar pressure there's no right or wrong answer, some like it and some don't based on what you are used ..folks who says Sonic bar pressure is too light and figure out where the kite is talking crap...they are just not used to it...same as me saying Soul has too much bar pressure..But one thing I do know is if I have boosting session with Soul ..like 50 boosts it does feel bit tiring and truck like..
IMHO...FS Sonic 3 is one of the best kites and the only kite that Exceeded my expectations in last 5 years, and FS hit bulls eye with this model in terms of performance, durability , pricing..
Bar sizing ...Sonic 3 11m can work on 60 or 55, I use 62cm Ozone bar but sometimes over steer and stall on a wing tip so needs practice with longer bar and steering input is obviously different to Soul
These users thanked the author sonny2727 for the post:
Gestalt (Sat May 01, 2021 10:27 pm)
Rating: 6.67%


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests