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more speed on a soul

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RomeUtah
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more speed on a soul

Postby RomeUtah » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:11 am

Hey All,
For all the racers out there, UT has had a dry season and im running out of ways to entertain my self on the frozen lakes (not a lot of options to glide or do freestyle). So I decided to start figuring out the speed thing. Im flying a 15m soul and a 8m soul, can also get on my 12 ts. On my 8m soul in 20 knots I got up to 42 mph (37 knts). On my 15 soul today i could not get above 30knts with the wind blowing 10 to 20. Is there a technique im missing in terms of edging or piloting the kite on skis to get faster? Ive got 186 skis and they are plenty long and hold a good edge. Is there a lot of active piloting I have to do to ride in the mid 30s or 40s? Any advice would help.

Cheers,
R.

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:53 am

Reduce your drag to go faster. Your 8m has less drag than your 15m for the maximum amount of lift you can hold down.

joriws
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby joriws » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:12 am

How do you find the pull of kite vs the angle riding? With this I mean that high pull kite makes you go very steep downwind angle which makes apparent wind less due to true wind riding angle and you lose kite pull, but you cannot hold edge on higher course because kite pulls too much on high speeds. Sheeting out helps the pull but you need to find balance point for speed where sheeting in more causes you to lose optimum riding angle to the wind. If true wind is 20kn and you ride directly downwind 18kn the kite sees 2kn true wind. So the more crosswind you can ride the better.

Maybe some edging technique might help with kite flying altitude change, sharpening edges well too if on ice or very hard dnow. Then finally going to quicker kite with even better l/d like Sonic-series which allows keeping riding angle higher to true wind.

With my Sonic2-15 and my friend Spleene X-19 there is no speed competition. X-19 is so draggy that my friend cannot keep course and speed anything close to me. X-19 has more tractor like pulling so difference is not because of kite lift force is less on X-19 but pull force vector aka direction is worse.

So take gps track and analyze with gpsarfree software. Speed rose is nice visual tool which displays riding andle vs riding speed. Nice big lake is better for analysis but you can do it in mountains on area where wind is most constant in speed and direction. On hills down- and uphill will spoof the results thats why lake ie level area is better.

Compare with friends on playful race like lets go there and try to go as fast as possible for you and check relative speed to your friend. Try sheeting and edging against the 'rabbit'.

RomeUtah
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby RomeUtah » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:18 pm

joriws wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:12 am
How do you find the pull of kite vs the angle riding? With this I mean that high pull kite makes you go very steep downwind angle which makes apparent wind less due to true wind riding angle and you lose kite pull, but you cannot hold edge on higher course because kite pulls too much on high speeds. Sheeting out helps the pull but you need to find balance point for speed where sheeting in more causes you to lose optimum riding angle to the wind. If true wind is 20kn and you ride directly downwind 18kn the kite sees 2kn true wind. So the more crosswind you can ride the better.

Maybe some edging technique might help with kite flying altitude change, sharpening edges well too if on ice or very hard dnow. Then finally going to quicker kite with even better l/d like Sonic-series which allows keeping riding angle higher to true wind.

With my Sonic2-15 and my friend Spleene X-19 there is no speed competition. X-19 is so draggy that my friend cannot keep course and speed anything close to me. X-19 has more tractor like pulling so difference is not because of kite lift force is less on X-19 but pull force vector aka direction is worse.

So take gps track and analyze with gpsarfree software. Speed rose is nice visual tool which displays riding andle vs riding speed. Nice big lake is better for analysis but you can do it in mountains on area where wind is most constant in speed and direction. On hills down- and uphill will spoof the results thats why lake ie level area is better.

Compare with friends on playful race like lets go there and try to go as fast as possible for you and check relative speed to your friend. Try sheeting and edging against the 'rabbit'.
Once I'm going about 25 knts, it pulls like a truck and im pretty even not going upwind not going down. There is def a ton of pressure on the skis but I am on edge without skidding. I was flying the kite actively and statically. I messed with the trim but I dont have much on the sentinal bar. The 8 meter def feels faster or at least feels like it has more top end. I had some meta data on my garmin watch but accidentally did not save the session. Will try again today

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edt
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby edt » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:34 pm

Keep us informed about what you learn tks

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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby juanpasala » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:04 pm

Try shortening your lines, dont see a reason you cant go faster on skis, my top speed on the 15 is at 38 knots on hydrofoil, and my top speed on my 8 is at 42 knots on a speed board (water)

RomeUtah
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby RomeUtah » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:52 pm

juanpasala wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:04 pm
Try shortening your lines, dont see a reason you cant go faster on skis, my top speed on the 15 is at 38 knots on hydrofoil, and my top speed on my 8 is at 42 knots on a speed board (water)
Im on 18m lines, you think shorter? im curious if im trying to go too far up wind and stalling the kite back... 38 on hydrofoil :o

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downunder
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby downunder » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:39 am

"it pulls like a truck " - this is indeed the problem. My 10m pulls like that as well so it is not only 15m. However, R1 11m does not pull like that at all.

Does R1 go faster, I do not know.

sonny2727
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby sonny2727 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:55 pm

downunder wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:39 am
"it pulls like a truck " - this is indeed the problem. My 10m pulls like that as well so it is not only 15m. However, R1 11m does not pull like that at all.

Does R1 go faster, I do not know.
Soul vs R1 ..Apples to oranges ...by design these two kite work as expected and stated by manufacturers. I have both and what I found is on TT i much prefer the playfulness of Soul and the constant pull is a plus as you can edge hard and send it without planning ..only kite I can boost easily without speed..Now on a hydrofoil R1 works great on a strait line and FOR SURE more speed on cross wind and upwind..boosting needs a slightly different technique as you need to keep consistent bar pressure and you can easily choke high AR kites if you pull in as Soul..its really hard to mess up or down a Soul and great kite for beginners and TT/Hydrofoil 50% 50% use...You don't need to even test a Soul a know how it behaves just look at the spec AR, thickness ...its the thickest foil on the market and whilst this makes it keep its shape in very low wind and best relaunch, pain to pack-up...Soul 2 maybe low bar pressure and better pulleys ..don't know why Armin stick to these stupid old crap pulleys..

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downunder
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Re: more speed on a soul

Postby downunder » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:50 am

Well,

We discussing the pull, right? I also have 13m Chrono v2, and comparing Soul 10m with 13m Soul pulls harder. Please show us the manufacturing statement for the pull?

And that has consequences. The pull cant be reduced with depower btw. And is worse with de-tuned mixer.

The behaviour of "pull" can be experienced with LEI kites as well. Some riders like it, some do not. Do we really think someone designed the "pull" on this kites?

I do not think so. It is not like doing 1000h test flights required by FAA ;)
If the mixer is way off, like on many used kites, it will fly like a dog. What this means is one has to try it before buying. Its a must.
Nothing that cant be fixed, but just saying...

And good rider can boost with anything.


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