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Foil kite hot launch

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SolarSet
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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby SolarSet » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:22 pm

what I mean is that in lunching foil kite there are many things that can go wrong that in my opinion it only seems easy in comparison to self landing foil kite. Small tiny stick can get into bridals while lunching (happened to me twice in 40-50 starts) or bridals tangle themselves from starting on narrow beach with wind shadow that can quickly tangle them. I have like 150 starts of LEI kites and some self lunch and can't remember ever having problems. I used to try to ride foil kite anytime I could even if it was blowing in upper range of it and I could ride smaller LEI kite but these days I only fly Soul if it's not enough for my LEI's.
Knowing what I know now before I bought Soul I would still buy it but I would be less hyped about it.

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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:25 pm

edt wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:42 pm
I hate landing my foil kites and if at all possible get an assisted landing. Launching them is easy. At some launches there is a wind shadow that you can reverse land them at easily but still would rather get someone to catch it.
agreed

except light wind, than it is no big deal imo.

in higher winds,,sometimes i will just back stal ( reverse land) from 12 oclock in high wind and then hit quick release to flag out, and sometimes i will bring to edge, backstall it towards straight downwind with the flag out line on the bottom and then flag out

every now and then when reverse landing in higher winds, when it gets very close to ground, they want to spin 180 degrees which is a pain.

but if i can, i will ask someone to catch it. defintely best option

Herman
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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby Herman » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:48 pm

Papasmerf I agree that landing well powered foils is a serious undertaking. Also, I have had foils spin through 180 which leads to an awkward situation.

I have put this weird spinning effect down to the shape of the kite shape collapsing asymmetrically resulting in weird spins. Now I am very careful not to over brake and keep the kite in shape as I fly it backwards. I have initially found it easier to be sensitive holding the leaders but it is fiddly to get hold of them and have recently been practicing asymmetric and sensitive use of the handle.

I am curious to know if you are using a brake handle and your thoughts on keeping the kite in shape by not overbraking?

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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:54 pm

Herman wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:48 pm
Papasmerf I agree that landing well powered foils is a serious undertaking. Also, I have had foils spin through 180 which leads to an awkward situation.

I have put this weird spinning effect down to the shape of the kite shape collapsing asymmetrically resulting in weird spins. Now I am very careful not to over brake and keep the kite in shape as I fly it backwards. I have initially found it easier to be sensitive holding the leaders but it is fiddly to get hold of them and have recently been practicing asymmetric and sensitive use of the handle.

I am curious to know if you are using a brake handle and your thoughts on keeping the kite in shape by not overbraking?
Why I prefer steering line balls over a brake handle. You have much more control, and can finesse it down easier.

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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby knyfe » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:57 pm

I would add that it depends on the kite as well. The only kite left in my bag is a 5 Genesis and that one you have to hot launch with a back stall as otherwise it does not fly well even lightly Pre inflated. Now the Flysurferkite’s I had all took off well deported but there I rarely launched hot. Only sideways with controlled backstall.

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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby papasmerf » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:50 pm

Herman wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:48 pm
Papasmerf I agree that landing well powered foils is a serious undertaking. Also, I have had foils spin through 180 which leads to an awkward situation.

I have put this weird spinning effect down to the shape of the kite shape collapsing asymmetrically resulting in weird spins. Now I am very careful not to over brake and keep the kite in shape as I fly it backwards. I have initially found it easier to be sensitive holding the leaders but it is fiddly to get hold of them and have recently been practicing asymmetric and sensitive use of the handle.

I am curious to know if you are using a brake handle and your thoughts on keeping the kite in shape by not overbraking?
i do have a brake handle but i have been ingrained from all my old flysurfers to use the balls ( that are always just out of reach) so i use the brake handle to pull the balls on the steering lines within reach of one of my hands and i grab both balls(ha ha) and then i reach up with other hand and grab a ball in each hand (ha ha ha) . i have very long arms so i am not sure how normal or short armed people reach those balls.

I think you are spot on, i do believe my 180 spins are caused by overbraking and the bottom half of the kite will collapse upwards just as it gets close to the ground. it tends to happen when the wind is medium to high. when it does happen, i just put both balls in one hand and hit the release and flag it out, since it is already on the ground, it is generally not that big of a mess. i think it is a bad idea (on my crappy beach) to stand there and try to spin it back 180 degrees.

i find it is sometimes hard to find that right spot where it won't collapse. in very light wind, i can usually get it to just keep its shape and sit on it's trailing edge and put a stake in the ground (which i always forget to get out). i think that as i feel more power in the kite as it reverses causes me to over react by pulling in more brake, and thus over braking.

of course, there is always the stake method or the carabiner method which i keep meaning to try but reverse landing generally goes fine.

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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 pm

An example in a small crowded beach in 20 knots.

Pulling very hard on leader lines up to get enough air to give a minimum structure in the kite, then release a bit and very slowly leader lines. But be prépared to slide 2 or 3 meters but the kite will not collapse at zenith.



And now a landing from edge of window as mentioned by Herman, at the end of video (2:12):

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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby Herman » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:24 pm

Regarding strong wind landing:

Thanks very much for the reply Papasmerf seems we are finding exactly the same things. I agree in the stronger wind it becomes more difficult to finesse the braking and obviously it is not particularly appealing to practice.

The hypothesis I am working on at the moment is that in strong wind you get pull you have to brace against then things start happening fairly quickly. It becomes counter intuitive to ease the brakes to keep the kite in shape because the pull is increasing and this is the feeling you have to overcome. I have been practicing a lot of backwards flying to eradicate this natural desire to brake too hard and I feel that this has resulted in a definite improvement. That said I entirely agree with your back up plan of full on braking followed by flagging. Trying to recover once the dreaded spin has occurred is likely to be an unwanted trip down the beach. Who would have thought playing with your balls could be so tricky.

Thanks again for the reply and info. Regards Herman.

papasmerf
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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby papasmerf » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:50 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 pm
An example in a small crowded beach in 20 knots.

Pulling very hard on leader lines up to get enough air to give a minimum structure in the kite, then release a bit and very slowly leader lines. But be prépared to slide 2 or 3 meters but the kite will not collapse at zenith.



And now a landing from edge of window as mentioned by Herman, at the end of video (2:12):
nice, regis!

i have enlisted many non-english speaking folks to land my foil kites but have never asked 2 elderly ladies to hot launch me. wow.

papasmerf
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Re: Foil kite hot launch

Postby papasmerf » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:56 am

Herman wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:24 pm
Regarding strong wind landing:

Thanks very much for the reply Papasmerf seems we are finding exactly the same things. I agree in the stronger wind it becomes more difficult to finesse the braking and obviously it is not particularly appealing to practice.

The hypothesis I am working on at the moment is that in strong wind you get pull you have to brace against then things start happening fairly quickly. It becomes counter intuitive to ease the brakes to keep the kite in shape because the pull is increasing and this is the feeling you have to overcome. I have been practicing a lot of backwards flying to eradicate this natural desire to brake too hard and I feel that this has resulted in a definite improvement. That said I entirely agree with your back up plan of full on braking followed by flagging. Trying to recover once the dreaded spin has occurred is likely to be an unwanted trip down the beach. Who would have thought playing with your balls could be so tricky.

Thanks again for the reply and info. Regards Herman.
i really only play with my balls in the winter time when i am the only one kiting usually so i don't get a lot of practice. otherwise, i have someone to land my kite. i should give credit to colin (FOIL) for the backstall kite towards center of window with the flag out line on the bottom trick. he told me it worked for him and it is a good back up plan. it's kind of like a sideways reverse landing.
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