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help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

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Archer77
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help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Archer77 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm

Hi all!

I'm a beginner, 80kg, with a Lift 200 (1290cm2) wing and 80 cm mast, thinking to begin in 8 to 14 knots wind

who sold me the HF told me to start with 12m LEI, I have also 9m and 7m LEI and a 10m Ozone Edge v10

what I'm trying to understand is, which should be the correct foil kite size to kite from 8 to 14 knots wind, because I get different opinions someone using 11m foil, someone 9 or even 7

which should be the "better" or more balanced, and what difference I would experience with different foil kite sizes?

In case I'm thinking to an Ozone Hyperlink, would be nice to have a big wind range like:

8 to 14 knots foiling and than up to 22 knots with twin tip maybe

thank you all
Best

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby joriws » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:23 pm

I understand you are foil-beginner, not total beginner, as joined 2016 to kiteforum. I'd say that Peak4 6m could be close (or even 5m) to your kite for hydrofoiling. Roughly 10m2 (9-11) double cell foilkite (Soul, Hyperlink, xxx) could be similar for low end (8-10kn) to get on board from water.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Archer77 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:19 pm

joriws wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:23 pm
I understand you are foil-beginner, not total beginner, as joined 2016 to kiteforum. I'd say that Peak4 6m could be close (or even 5m) to your kite for hydrofoiling. Roughly 10m2 (9-11) double cell foilkite (Soul, Hyperlink, xxx) could be similar for low end (8-10kn) to get on board from water.
thank you joriws! yes I'm kiting on TT from 2016!
why on the single skin Peak are enough 6m and on the double cell like the hyperlink are necessary almost twice the meters?
you are suggesting them for the same exact condition or the Peak suggestion was for wave hydrofoiling kite?

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby lederhosen » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:30 pm

I was in the same situation last year and got a kitech frs in 12m. Im 80kg and its great for 8 to 16 knots on my 800sqcm foil. The kitech pulls less then other foil kites i read, so the 11m hyperlink sounds like the right size. I have seen someone use a 9m sonic3 in very light wind with a race foil, but they had way better technique than me. As a hydrofoil foil beginner i would get an 11 or 12m foilkite.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby dave1986 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:58 pm

Archer77 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm
Hi all!

I'm a beginner, 80kg, with a Lift 200 (1290cm2) wing and 80 cm mast, thinking to begin in 8 to 14 knots wind

who sold me the HF told me to start with 12m LEI, I have also 9m and 7m LEI and a 10m Ozone Edge v10

what I'm trying to understand is, which should be the correct foil kite size to kite from 8 to 14 knots wind, because I get different opinions someone using 11m foil, someone 9 or even 7

which should be the "better" or more balanced, and what difference I would experience with different foil kite sizes?

In case I'm thinking to an Ozone Hyperlink, would be nice to have a big wind range like:

8 to 14 knots foiling and than up to 22 knots with twin tip maybe

thank you all
Best
The answer to your question somewhat depends on your own personal riding style. There is a very small difference between the low-end of different size foil kites when used witg a hydrofoil.

For an 80kg rider on an Ozone Hyperlink with a freeride hydrofoil is would estimate the following (approximate)low-ends:

13m :6 to 7 knots.
11m:8 to 9 knots
9m: 9 to 10 knots
7m 11 to 12 knots

So only about 4knots difference in low-end for the range of sizes. But the interesting thing is that the top-end of the smaller sizes will be MUCH more. And most people prefer the smaller faster turning kites.

So your decision needs to be based on the following questions:
1) Do I want the ultimate low-end or are you happy to compromise a tiny bit of low-end to have a faster kite?
2) What is my riding style? i.e. Do I prefer riding with more power and speed(I.e. bigger kite) or would I rather ride with less power and use a smaller and faster turning kite?
3) How important is the top-end of the kite?

Personally I am 85kg and chose a 13m Chrono foil kite.

There is no right or wrong answer... only personal preference.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Windigo1 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:05 pm

I'm the same weight as you and I have almost the same size foil (1250) Moses 633. 12m work from 6 to 20 knots for me but 6 to 15 is the sweet spot 9m 8 to 25 but 8 to 20 is good. I think the advice of starting with 12m is good. You need more power in the beginning because you are not very efficient. As you get better you will find you get overpowered quickly on a large kite as you go faster so you will want to use a smaller kite like 9m most of the time. A light kite like a single strut or foil kite helps a lot in very light wind because it will stay in the air much better.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Archer77 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:56 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:58 pm
Archer77 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm
Hi all!

I'm a beginner, 80kg, with a Lift 200 (1290cm2) wing and 80 cm mast, thinking to begin in 8 to 14 knots wind

who sold me the HF told me to start with 12m LEI, I have also 9m and 7m LEI and a 10m Ozone Edge v10

what I'm trying to understand is, which should be the correct foil kite size to kite from 8 to 14 knots wind, because I get different opinions someone using 11m foil, someone 9 or even 7

which should be the "better" or more balanced, and what difference I would experience with different foil kite sizes?

In case I'm thinking to an Ozone Hyperlink, would be nice to have a big wind range like:

8 to 14 knots foiling and than up to 22 knots with twin tip maybe

thank you all
Best
The answer to your question somewhat depends on your own personal riding style. There is a very small difference between the low-end of different size foil kites when used witg a hydrofoil.

For an 80kg rider on an Ozone Hyperlink with a freeride hydrofoil is would estimate the following (approximate)low-ends:

13m :6 to 7 knots.
11m:8 to 9 knots
9m: 9 to 10 knots
7m 11 to 12 knots

So only about 4knots difference in low-end for the range of sizes. But the interesting thing is that the top-end of the smaller sizes will be MUCH more. And most people prefer the smaller faster turning kites.

So your decision needs to be based on the following questions:
1) Do I want the ultimate low-end or are you happy to compromise a tiny bit of low-end to have a faster kite?
2) What is my riding style? i.e. Do I prefer riding with more power and speed(I.e. bigger kite) or would I rather ride with less power and use a smaller and faster turning kite?
3) How important is the top-end of the kite?

Personally I am 85kg and chose a 13m Chrono foil kite.

There is no right or wrong answer... only personal preference.
thank you Dave, is exactly was I was trying to understand, at first sound strange just because all measure have very near starting point...

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby joriws » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:04 am

Archer77 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:19 pm
joriws wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:23 pm
I understand you are foil-beginner, not total beginner, as joined 2016 to kiteforum. I'd say that Peak4 6m could be close (or even 5m) to your kite for hydrofoiling. Roughly 10m2 (9-11) double cell foilkite (Soul, Hyperlink, xxx) could be similar for low end (8-10kn) to get on board from water.
thank you joriws! yes I'm kiting on TT from 2016!
why on the single skin Peak are enough 6m and on the double cell like the hyperlink are necessary almost twice the meters?
you are suggesting them for the same exact condition or the Peak suggestion was for wave hydrofoiling kite?
I'd say size diff comes from trimmed AoA to kite, as Peak4 with less efficient airfoil flies deeper at wind window with natural higher AoA to true wind. Double skins are more efficient and naturally flies more forward in wind window with less AoA so more meters (span) is needed for same lift force. Also Peak4 with less flying inertia accelerates faster for power spike. I tend to think that limiting factor in low winds is getting your mass on board from water with kite power and accelerate board to planing and then foil wing to engage for flying. Once flying with foil the kite power requirement reduces a lot.

Peak4 you can use just cruising or waves or 2d tricks (tacks, jibes, 360, etc), sure small jumps are possible. For 3d riding aka boosting/jumping double skins are better.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby downunder » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:43 pm

I am on 633 Moses. But quite experienced with foils on TT.

My advice, dont even think of foils for now. My Ultra drifts way better, relaunch in 10-15kn is a breeze, no bow ties, no anchor with 200l of water in cells, etc.

Youll fight a kite more than hf. You will over run the foil kite. Not worth till u have skills.

Our 90kg rider uses Clouds. When I was on 13m Chrono and TT, he was on 6.5m cloud. Go, figure...sure, Peak4 after, but not now.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Pemba » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:32 pm

When I started learning I think I benefitted from a bigger (LEI) kite, well powered kite, I might have been on a 12 with 16 knots. Bigger = slower which helps a little bit in a crash, and also since I was on a small board with little volume it helps by pulling upward so just riding the board is easier. You don't have to dive the kite into the powerzone as much to get moving. Having horizontal pull is difficult when you can't foil yet because it tends to force you to edge. Once you're up on the foil, these advantages are mostly gone though. I would also use a LEI, not a foil because relaunch is easier and they are less problematic in a serious crash, unless I guess, you are very familiar with foil kites.
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