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help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

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Archer77
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Archer77 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:38 am

Foil wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:44 am
Buying your first foil kites for hydrofoiling is a exciting reach out into the unknown for many hydrofoilers, for many its a sheer joy, power that is just so controllable, power delivery that's so smooth, lift and glide around the corners with less tendency for slack line situations, easier body dragging out in difficult onshore winds with waves, less gear, and much lighter gear to carry down to waters edge, massive wind range of foil kites compared to LEI kites, one foil kite covers at least 2 lei kite sizes,and the much publicised grunt and lift that Foil kites can deliver in the initial get up and go.
sounds great,
but it's not for everyone, and sailing locations that you use must be considered,
as a guide then if you are still falling in a lot during a session, still feeling unsteady in the chop and tripping up more than the other foilers, if you keep dropping your kite in the turns, rarely if ever getting near a dry 30 mins on the water, if any of this applies to you then you may need to think carefully before changing to foil kites, learning two skills at the same time can be achieved, but its going to be harder, and you need to keep yourself aware of the risks that come with a foil kite and take all the steps to minimise that risk.
If you are in the early hydro foiling learning stages then you will drop your foil kite for sure, and drop it more often than others you may watch who never seem to drop thiers, ok, so with this in mind then think about your sailing spot, are there many buddies around to help out? with advice and be there when things go wrong, can you practice more often on a safe lagoon type area, shallow water area, easy launch and land location, the list goes on, can you practice foil kite pack down and relaunch skill/ability? you will need this skill in the bank for sure before going out in anything less than super safe and ideal.
Then there is the choice of foil kite,
don't just dive in and buy cheap,
be very careful who you listen to, yes foil kites relaunch much much easier than lei kites,but only in the hands of someone who has practiced a lot and is aware of all the downsides not just the advantages, but even for the experienced then if its a blown out bag from 5 to 15 years back, thats been well used, slower than slow thing, and is now porus, heavy by todays superlight standards, and out of tune with cotton thin bridals that will never deliver a good experience to a novice.but it may be going cheap!

Generally foil kites classed as freeride,are the ones to look at new or the latest versions, not budget price, recommended by the hydrofoilers you can actually watch and talk to to at your sailing spot, go for the lightest weight for size, strongest bridal set that "never" need adjustment ,they are available but limit your choices

I have found that guys newer to foil kite use on a hydrofoil may need to go up a size in the first year of use, and then as skill develops in the use of the foil kite you can drop a size for the same conditions that a year back seemed impossible, which then makes foil kite use an even better experience.
Very appreciated these guidelines, overview and advice Foil! Thank You!
I will for sure wait to go for Foil kites! I have many LEI that I now understand are perfect to start and till I will be at least an Intermediated!

Just curious, how behave modern foil kites like the Hyperlink in places very gusty and with lulls too?
I normally ride in Porto Pollo (Sardinia) and the wind is pretty challenging...

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Flyboy » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:32 pm

Archer77 wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:21 am

I clearly understand now that I have to start HF with LEI's

To be clear, how much time should I reserve for Surface Riding before trying to fly on the HF wing?
Personally, I found it very difficult to surface ride the board, even though I was told that is what I should do at first. It led to a couple of sessions of just floundering around uncomfortably. As soon as I committed to getting up on the foil I had success ... for short, "explosive" rides. Then it's just a matter of refining your balance on the foil to get longer & longer rides. Also, I did not find I dropped the (LEI) kite much at all ... as long as there was enough wind. You will fall often & awkwardly, but unlike on a TT or SB, the moment you lose control you pull away from the board with the kite, so it's quite easy to keep the kite in the air.

The initial water start is the most difficult part of learning to foil - it requires a very precise combination of actions. Most important ... & counterintuitive ... is the commitment to move your weight forward as you start to lift onto the foil. Once you're up on the foil it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice, until balancing the foil becomes second nature. :thumb:
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby elguapo » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:03 pm

imo, purpose of "surface riding" is to get you out of twin tip habits and used to the front foot pressure...

as you go thru the chop you'll start noticing you're actually flying the foil when riding on the surface.

to Me.. if you can go 100m on the surface.. you'll "get it" and be up on the foil naturally.
Last edited by elguapo on Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby deniska » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:21 am

migel1976 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:04 am
RDB freerace?
yes, on slingshot/moses mast/fuse

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Gestalt » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:14 am

Archer77 wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:21 am
Flyboy wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:36 am
I learnt to foil on a smaller wing. I suspect trying to learn on a 1200cm2 wing by keeping the board in control on the water surface with a larger kite will prove very challenging. Better to go out in a bit more wind & a 9m LEI. In all honesty, I found "surface riding" the board to be very frustrating & ultimately a waste of time ... in the end you have to commit to getting up on the foil.
Thank you Flyboy and Gestalt for the confirmation and specifications!

I clearly understand now that I have to start HF with LEI's

To be clear, how much time should I reserve for Surface Riding before trying to fly on the HF wing?
Surface riding is only viable with a hydrofoil board with float, which I do recommend. Older wood boards had no float so surface riding was pretty rough, so you had extra incentive to pop out early and try to learn from there.

I have seen 2 completely opposite teaching/learning philosophies for hydrofoiling. Bigger is easier, and smaller is easier... In my personal experience the smaller wing <700cm2 was the easiest to get up on. Larger 1600cm2 wing for me were the most difficult to control especially pitch and roll. A smaller wing is more forgiving and easier to adjust I found.

IMO, surface ride until you don't fall over anymore. Once your comfortable going 20+ meters, start popping out for short periods of time. Less is more.
This tutorial I found super helpful.

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby migel1976 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:26 am

deniska wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:21 am
migel1976 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:04 am
RDB freerace?
yes, on slingshot/moses mast/fuse
just recently bought soul 15, and still think, maybe i need buy 12 size, i use 1050 wing from mday company, my weight 90 kg, wind in average from 6 to 14 knots

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby Archer77 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:30 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:58 pm
Archer77 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm
Hi all!

I'm a beginner, 80kg, with a Lift 200 (1290cm2) wing and 80 cm mast, thinking to begin in 8 to 14 knots wind

who sold me the HF told me to start with 12m LEI, I have also 9m and 7m LEI and a 10m Ozone Edge v10

what I'm trying to understand is, which should be the correct foil kite size to kite from 8 to 14 knots wind, because I get different opinions someone using 11m foil, someone 9 or even 7

which should be the "better" or more balanced, and what difference I would experience with different foil kite sizes?

In case I'm thinking to an Ozone Hyperlink, would be nice to have a big wind range like:

8 to 14 knots foiling and than up to 22 knots with twin tip maybe

thank you all
Best
The answer to your question somewhat depends on your own personal riding style. There is a very small difference between the low-end of different size foil kites when used witg a hydrofoil.

For an 80kg rider on an Ozone Hyperlink with a freeride hydrofoil is would estimate the following (approximate)low-ends:

13m :6 to 7 knots.
11m:8 to 9 knots
9m: 9 to 10 knots
7m 11 to 12 knots

So only about 4knots difference in low-end for the range of sizes. But the interesting thing is that the top-end of the smaller sizes will be MUCH more. And most people prefer the smaller faster turning kites.

So your decision needs to be based on the following questions:
1) Do I want the ultimate low-end or are you happy to compromise a tiny bit of low-end to have a faster kite?
2) What is my riding style? i.e. Do I prefer riding with more power and speed(I.e. bigger kite) or would I rather ride with less power and use a smaller and faster turning kite?
3) How important is the top-end of the kite?

Personally I am 85kg and chose a 13m Chrono foil kite.

There is no right or wrong answer... only personal preference.
Dave please could you say also the top end knots for an intermediate rider of 80 Kg with twintip of the 4 sizes Hyperlink? would be very useful (cause I know the ones officially declared are very relative...)

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Re: help needed on foil kite size for hydrofoil

Postby deniska » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:04 am

migel1976 wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:26 am
deniska wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:21 am
migel1976 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:04 am
RDB freerace?
yes, on slingshot/moses mast/fuse
just recently bought soul 15, and still think, maybe i need buy 12 size, i use 1050 wing from mday company, my weight 90 kg, wind in average from 6 to 14 knots
I personally do not hunt for wind lower than 8-9 kts.. its just too much work...
from 9 to 20 15 soul is my favorite kite... my sweetspot for foiling on it is 11-13 kts


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