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Bigger board or bigger kite?

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Slappysan
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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Slappysan » Wed May 05, 2021 10:01 pm

Raynski wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm
but if you can have as much fun/power/jumping height with a 12m soul, as you would with a 15m, why would you bother with a 15m unless you plan on riding sub 14knots though?
He didn't say they would be as much fun, only that it would work. Both sizes will work, you need to ask yourself "which will be more fun". For me (who weighs less than you) that would clearly be the 15m in those wind ranges.
Raynski wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm
the 12m soul can do pretty much the same as the 15 with the added benefit of being much faster then a 15m...
The reality is the 12m Soul does not do everything the 15m Soul does, it has less power. Do you want to be doing big lofty jumps with ease or having to work the kite to build up speed to get much air each time you jump?

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Kristan » Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm

Raynski wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm

I understand, but if you can have as much fun/power/jumping height with a 12m soul, as you would with a 15m, why would you bother with a 15m unless you plan on riding sub 14knots though? I mean yes you would have 12m kites, but the 12m soul can do pretty much the same as the 15 with the added benefit of being much faster then a 15m...then having 2 12m kites doesn’t really matter except for the symbolism of it
15m Soul can be fun as well. I'd even say a lot of folks around here prefer 15m Souls over 12m ones, because of how huge their wind range is. Wind too low? Hydrofoil or go on a door. Wind too high? Just trim or get another kite. I can't say for 15m Soul how high it goes, but top wind speed I was with 12m was 26 knots or so and that was not even the limit of it. You are aiming for lower winds.

To be fair, I don't actually know what exactly do you want. How much of wind on average do you have? Do you really need a 12m kite that would overlap your current 12m? Does your 12m not satisfy you for the conditions that you have?

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 05, 2021 10:26 pm

When you say "faster", what are you thinking about?
As if you take a similar sized foil kite and LEI, the LEI will turn way faster of course.

But even if you compare similar power sizes, meaning the LEI a bit bigger size than the foil, the LEI still turns faster than the smaller foil kite.

Some foilkites can pivot turn more narrow than a LEI, but then it is without speed and power, thus not interesting.

8) Peter

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Raynski » Thu May 06, 2021 9:18 am

Slappysan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:01 pm
Raynski wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm
but if you can have as much fun/power/jumping height with a 12m soul, as you would with a 15m, why would you bother with a 15m unless you plan on riding sub 14knots though?
He didn't say they would be as much fun, only that it would work. Both sizes will work, you need to ask yourself "which will be more fun". For me (who weighs less than you) that would clearly be the 15m in those wind ranges.
Raynski wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm
the 12m soul can do pretty much the same as the 15 with the added benefit of being much faster then a 15m...
The reality is the 12m Soul does not do everything the 15m Soul does, it has less power. Do you want to be doing big lofty jumps with ease or having to work the kite to build up speed to get much air each time you jump?

Hmm it’s true the 12m has less power, but when there is 15knots of wind blowing, I can’t imagine needing to do much more work then you would with a 15m, a 12m soul is like having a 15m LEI right?

Also I thought a 12m would jump higher because it moves faster from 10 to 12. I can remember reading a topic here saying that a smaller kite with all else being equal jumps higher then a bigger kite?

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Raynski » Thu May 06, 2021 9:21 am

Kristan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm
Raynski wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm

I understand, but if you can have as much fun/power/jumping height with a 12m soul, as you would with a 15m, why would you bother with a 15m unless you plan on riding sub 14knots though? I mean yes you would have 12m kites, but the 12m soul can do pretty much the same as the 15 with the added benefit of being much faster then a 15m...then having 2 12m kites doesn’t really matter except for the symbolism of it
15m Soul can be fun as well. I'd even say a lot of folks around here prefer 15m Souls over 12m ones, because of how huge their wind range is. Wind too low? Hydrofoil or go on a door. Wind too high? Just trim or get another kite. I can't say for 15m Soul how high it goes, but top wind speed I was with 12m was 26 knots or so and that was not even the limit of it. You are aiming for lower winds.

To be fair, I don't actually know what exactly do you want. How much of wind on average do you have? Do you really need a 12m kite that would overlap your current 12m? Does your 12m not satisfy you for the conditions that you have?

Yes, we often have days with 14-17 knots in the summer here, a 12m LEI then is just not enough.

I’d say the plan is to use
foilkite between 14-18knots
12m LEI 18-22
9m LEI 22 and above

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby sonny2727 » Thu May 06, 2021 10:42 am

Slappysan wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:04 pm
Raynski wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:12 pm
Kristan wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:41 pm
14-18 knots were enough for me to go on 12m Soul with 140x42 board, all of that while I weight 100kg.
You didn’t read it thoroughly. I weigh 90kg, and my plan is to use a 144x48 board...how can that not be enough?
A friend of mine who weighs the exact same went out with his 13m LEI kite in 15-16knots was able to jump 5-6 meters :?:
It's not really a question of "enough" though, it's a question of what's going to be the most fun in that 14-18 knot wind range.
I can keep upwind on my 9m in 14 knots, but is it fun? nope.

I'm only 75 kg and I would choose the 15m over the 12m for those winds, at 100 kg the 15m seems like a no brainer.
I'd agree with this..I'm 70kg and going with 15m so I can have fun in 10-15knts but If I'm only interested in 15-20kts then its usually 11m sonic 3...You can hold a lot of power on a race foil with foot straps and technique, long mast

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby joriws » Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 am

Raynski wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:21 am
Yes, we often have days with 14-17 knots in the summer here, a 12m LEI then is just not enough.

I’d say the plan is to use
foilkite between 14-18knots
I am 110kg and I use 15m Sonic3 about 8kn(ish) up with twintip. 8kn flydoor and 10kn normal twintip. Hydrofoil maybe a tad lower, limiting factor is getting from water on board. I am saying this that you could rethink how you could kite, 14kn is already a STORM for me in summer!

In this video of mine I demo newly released Sonic-FR (v1) 15m start with flydoor but move to 146x46. I think 146x46, it is 11y old board so don't remember the board details. My friend with Speed3 15m is the other kite with 140x42ish normal sized twintip with 80kg. Wind is around 9-11kn range I'd say. As on jump you can see that I can get my head at least nicely over windsurfer mast-horizon level (meaning camera is higher than that level) so at least 4m high jumps as with woo-fly-with-arse-type-jumps I'd have lifted board above head.


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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Raynski » Sun May 09, 2021 2:23 am

Small update, bought a 15m and took it out today in 17-18 knots, gusts around 22-23, completely depowered and it was just awful. Launching it was awful, landing it was awful and it’s just way too big and powerful. I got completely ragdolled on the water, the kite just keeps going and going, you get overpowered so incredibly quick, just takes a few seconds before speed is completely out of control. sheeting out didn’t work, edging didn’t work because the kite sits so high in the window, it’s just keeps pulling me of my edge. I have to keep the kite very low at 10 clock and then I can keep my edge, but if it’s choppy you get thrown off and after a second of being thrown off you pick up speed so incredibly quick and with so much power, I’ve never had this before with LEI aside from when I was just starting out and didn’t know how to keep my edge. The thing I’m most disappointed with is its ability to depower. It just didn’t work, once I sheeted out it felt like I even picked up more speed. I just don’t know what to make of this foil kite thing, it’s like being dragged by a truck on nitro. The board I used was 140x42.

I have committed myself to use the kite atleast 20 sessions before I throw in the towel and sell it off. Will keep updating on how it goes, next session is coming Wednesday with a steady 14-15 knots and gust 18knots.
I’m already scared shitless again because there were times today I was sure I was going to f*** up my ankle and tear the ligaments off or dislocate my shoulder in a high speed crash....to be continued.

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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Adventure Logs » Sun May 09, 2021 9:11 am

This is your first foil, you need to learn the differences first before you take it out in gusty higher winds. Make sure you have a bar with a long throw too, it should depower pretty well. You said you wanted between 14-17 kts, not 20+. It will be fine at 20+ but quite the handful for someone inexperienced. Keep at it :-)

=Jason-
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Kristan
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Re: Bigger board or bigger kite?

Postby Kristan » Sun May 09, 2021 3:40 pm

Well damn, you went out on a big wing you have zero experience with in wind of 18 knots. I don't know why have you decided to ditch your 12m LEI for that wind, because for me I'd rather grab that kite for such wind. Hell, I'd grab 12m LEI if there would be 14-15 knots. It just looks like you're aiming to be overpowered on purpose because as you think that is what it means to have fun kiteboarding.


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