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foil kite problem

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Ramonn
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foil kite problem

Postby Ramonn » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:38 pm

Hello,
I hope someone can give me some good advise.

I own an Ozone Hyperlink Ultralight 9. I use this with my foil board. If the wind is 10 knots or above it is perfect!

But if it is 6-8 knots I always get into trouble. The kite flies well. I can start and get up on my board. The moment the board starts flying everything is swell. And then... I make a mistake, slack lines, kite drops. If I am lucky the kite is just in the water and I can relaunch pretty easy. But if I am not so lucky, and this happens a lot, the kite gets twisted with the lines around on of the tips. I am not able to relaunch and have to swim to shore.

First my technique should be better, avoid mistakes. But how?
Second, if the lines are around the tips, any way to solve this when in the water with 6-8 knots?

Would shorter lines help? I now use 25 meters, would 17 meters prevent the problem of slack lines?
Would a bigger kite help in this kind of wind? 13 meters hyperlink or chrono? Of would this only enlarge the problem?
I could choose a one strut kite like the Ozone Alpha, it won't get twisted. But flying or relaunch in 6-8 knots will probably not be easy.

Thanks, would really appreciate you help!
Ramon

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jakemoore
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby jakemoore » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:26 pm

Spend a good 10 hours flying the kite on land in light wind. Learn to loop it. Learn where the limits in the wind window are that the kite will fall. In particular if it is too low and at the edge it will fall. Get in the habit of always keeping the kite moving. Once you are back on the water have a low threshold to loop the kite back into the wind window.

A bigger kite will not help keep the kite in the air. A big kite will not relaunch any easier. It might take the zenith sooner on land but the need to anticipate bar movements due to slow turning will make it more challenging. A bigger kite will give better upwind angles when you are riding and also a little more pull to get up on the board.

Short lines will not help as you will have less reaction time. Consider longer lines. I have gone as long as 40M. Consider how much room you have to launch and land. Super light race lines also help. Consider 0.8-9 mm Liros DC Pro on the rear lines. Super long and light lines are just for light winds and not for everyday riding and not for jumping.

You can roll the lines, untangle the kite and then unroll for a drift launch if the kite is twisted. Look at Horst Sergio videos for drift launching. In 6 knots it might make more sense to go ahead and roll the kite and start swimming.

Ozone kites have excellent performance and the bridle gives good longevity. But the valves drink a little more than some others. Kitech FRS and Flysurfer Soul are relaunch champions in our area. There is still a good chance of swimming if you are seeking 6 knots.
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Jyoder
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:39 pm

Generally with foil kites, sheeting in helps open the wingtips. Holding bar sheeted in and then giving a bit of a yank on the center lines can help the kite jump up and down and clear the tangles at the tips. Sometimes oversheeting by grabbing rear lines above the bar, even if kite is sitting on the water, will help. If it’s a serious wrap or bow tie at the tip and the kite is flying but one tip collapsed the bow tied, I oversheet and back stall it onto the water and try the above for a bit to clear it before committing to swim. The water can help clear the tangle somehow, if you oversheet and hold it down and there’s enough wind. If you have enough steering authority to fly it a bit you can drag back to beach with a bow tie tip, or you can turn the kite so tangled tip is down and good tip is up and shake the lines to let gravity help clear the bottom tip. This is tricky because the good side will try to surge and helicopter over onto LE. You have to hold steering above bar for authority on good side.

Times when sheeting in does NOT help a folded tip is if the wind lulls with the kite at 9 or 3 o’clock and kite starts to taco. Then you have to sheet out and gently steer it back into the window. Unless it really is taco-ing and then you need to give a hard yank and steer toward 12 so kite back stalls to center of window and opens back up.
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:58 pm

Short lines do help! But raise your low end. The kite has less time to accelerate to end of window therefore has less inertia to overfly and collapse. Big kites carry a lot of energy and can surge in a gust and overfly in a lull and short lines means more of the kite is getting more of the wind when sitting at edge of window, preventing stall. Short lines make it easier to back stall the kite into the center of the window in a lull to prevent wingtip fold and taco.

In gusty variable 5-15 knots wind, I am much more comfortable on 10m lines on my 11m Diablo than on 20m lines, even though it means I have to loop a lot to get going. I have much more authority to prevent collapse.
Last edited by Jyoder on Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:07 pm

If you crash the kite LE down, you MUST maintain rear line tension! Even releasing rear lines for a moment can let the TE settle back and wind get under one side of the LE and lift it into a bow tie. Sheeting in all the way may not be enough if you are trimmed on a big kite, you may need to pull the tears above the bar to keep the kite shape while you prepare to reverse launch. Do not let go and reach for your board unless you’re certain the side you let go won’t relax back and bow tie.
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Ramonn
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Ramonn » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:04 pm

Thanks for sharing all the info. Really helpful.

Practice more and on land is something I will do.
The bow tie, that is exactly what happens. Good to know it has a name. And good to know it is a general problem with a solution.
I want to try shorter lines. To feel what this does. What line length would you recommend for my kite?
Ramon

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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Jyoder » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:27 am

Try 15m lines for the experience, but in 10-15knots until you get used to it, then try 10m lines. In the beginning it is more difficult and you might dive the kite into the water by accident due to timing differences and shorter, faster power spike. You might find you have to loop to water start, or at least go from one edge of the window to the other. Not for everyone but if you get dialed in it makes tacks easier. On 10m lines you may have to downloop during jibes in light wind as the kite doesn’t drift as well. Depends how fast your foil is.
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Ramonn
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Ramonn » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:37 pm

Thanks. I will try. I ordered a new bar, with 15 and 10 meter lines.

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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Tomlutz » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:45 pm

You can swim to the kite to position it manually and untangle the lines / untwist the tips. I already did this successfully without even winding up the lines on the bar by swimming a large circle around the kite and approach it from behind. However, the other day it was a terrible mess, so it is always better to wind up the lines on the bar. After having positoned the kite perfectly in the water you can swim back, unwinding the bar, and relaunch. Having the kite in perfect (re)launch position makes a huge difference. - Tom
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Ramonn
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Re: foil kite problem

Postby Ramonn » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:44 pm

Thanks Tom, I will try this too.
Ramon


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