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Choosing a foil kite

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Turbaani
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Choosing a foil kite

Postby Turbaani » Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:31 pm

In need of some advice. I've been flying only LEI's and doing it for 9years.
I can ride hydrofoil with 12m xr in winds where kite will drop from sky if its kept still.I want something better for light wind, so I am looking for ~15m foil kite now. Im 74kg.

I have almost zero experience with foil kites, but with LEI's I would call myself very experienced pilot as I often ride in very light winds without failing.

I have been looking into flysurfer kites, they recommend going for Soul if you are newbie foil kiter. But I was thinking of maybe going for Sonic straight away. Most of the winds here are good, but sometimes I go out in gusty and turbulent winds. Not very often though. Do you think sonic can be used in turbulent wind when you know how to fly it well?

What kind of bar connection does flysurfer use? Can I use my LEI bars or does it need different connections or something?

Is it dangerous to buy used foil kite? Lets say 1-2y old.

Thanks for anyone who took the time to help.

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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby airsail » Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:57 pm

I have the Soul and the Sonic, stay away from the Sonic if your new to foil kites. It’s a brilliant kite but you need some time on a medium aspect kite to learn how to fly them. One phrase I often say to prospective foil kite users is that pushing the bar out gives more power, screws with their mind.
As for size, at 74 kg the 12 mtr Soul is more than enough, The 15 mtr may get you 1-2 knots more low end but is a bit of a truck, big and slow and without foil kite skills I doubt you will realise any benefit. The 12 Soul will be more powerful and lighter than your XR.
New or old depends on your budget, new is best as you know there will be no problems. But if you can find a lightly used Soul it is a good option. Kite Elements is Flysurfers outlet shop and the have good deals on ex demo kites.
Any 4 line bar will work with a Soul, best is 55cm or larger. Connection is larks head or knobs on any line, simple.

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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby dave1986 » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:03 pm

I know you didn't ask about Ozone kites.... but i bought an Ozone Chrono V4 13m as my first foil kite. The Chrono is probably not as high aspect as a Sonic, but higher aspect than the Soul.

Personally I have had no issues with the Chrono as my 1st foil kite

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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby rnelias » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:19 pm

Turbaani wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:31 pm
In need of some advice. I've been flying only LEI's and doing it for 9years.
I can ride hydrofoil with 12m xr in winds where kite will drop from sky if its kept still.I want something better for light wind, so I am looking for ~15m foil kite now. Im 74kg.

I have almost zero experience with foil kites, but with LEI's I would call myself very experienced pilot as I often ride in very light winds without failing.

I have been looking into flysurfer kites, they recommend going for Soul if you are newbie foil kiter. But I was thinking of maybe going for Sonic straight away. Most of the winds here are good, but sometimes I go out in gusty and turbulent winds. Not very often though. Do you think sonic can be used in turbulent wind when you know how to fly it well?

What kind of bar connection does flysurfer use? Can I use my LEI bars or does it need different connections or something?

Is it dangerous to buy used foil kite? Lets say 1-2y old.

Thanks for anyone who took the time to help.
If your wing is big (>1000cm^2) I'd say to get a light wind LEI kite like the Ozone Alpha or Airush Ultra.

I'm 72kg and usually hydrofoil with a big wing 1250cm^2 in very light winds using an Alpha 8m. I also have a Soul 12m that I don't use too often as it's very easy to be overpowered with this wing. If the wind picks up in the 12-14k range, it's hard to foil with a big wing. You'll have to keep the kite close to zenith, pulling you vertically and put a lot of pressure in the front foot.

Regarding LEI to RAM kite transition...

It was not hard to fly the Soul in my first trials. The only thing that I thought different (and annoying) is that the foil kite is much slower since you have more mass to accelerate. The kite don't need to be worked in sine curves as we usually do with LEI kites. Just find the sweet spot in the wind window that it will tow you.
Last edited by rnelias on Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Turbaani
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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby Turbaani » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:21 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:03 pm
I know you didn't ask about Ozone kites.... but i bought an Ozone Chrono V4 13m as my first foil kite. The Chrono is probably not as high aspect as a Sonic, but higher aspect than the Soul.

Personally I have had no issues with the Chrono as my 1st foil kite
Hey Dave, flysurfer isn't the only brand it can be. I just know they make quality products. How do you feel with the 13m? How is the feeling, does it feel slow coming from LEI's, and do you think you could gain some low end with 15m?

Turbaani
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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby Turbaani » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:28 pm

airsail wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:57 pm
I have the Soul and the Sonic, stay away from the Sonic if your new to foil kites. It’s a brilliant kite but you need some time on a medium aspect kite to learn how to fly them. One phrase I often say to prospective foil kite users is that pushing the bar out gives more power, screws with their mind.
As for size, at 74 kg the 12 mtr Soul is more than enough, The 15 mtr may get you 1-2 knots more low end but is a bit of a truck, big and slow and without foil kite skills I doubt you will realise any benefit. The 12 Soul will be more powerful and lighter than your XR.
New or old depends on your budget, new is best as you know there will be no problems. But if you can find a lightly used Soul it is a good option. Kite Elements is Flysurfers outlet shop and the have good deals on ex demo kites.
Any 4 line bar will work with a Soul, best is 55cm or larger. Connection is larks head or knobs on any line, simple.
Thanks for good tips.
I don't know how foilkites work yet, but if its the same that kite speeds up when bar is pushed out, then yes I understand. Even LEI's need to be depowered in super light wind to keep the speed in the kite.

Yeah its a debate on the size. But I am mainly looking for a good light wind weapon.

airsail
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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby airsail » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:35 pm

Turbaani wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:28 pm
airsail wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:57 pm
I have the Soul and the Sonic, stay away from the Sonic if your new to foil kites. It’s a brilliant kite but you need some time on a medium aspect kite to learn how to fly them. One phrase I often say to prospective foil kite users is that pushing the bar out gives more power, screws with their mind.
As for size, at 74 kg the 12 mtr Soul is more than enough, The 15 mtr may get you 1-2 knots more low end but is a bit of a truck, big and slow and without foil kite skills I doubt you will realise any benefit. The 12 Soul will be more powerful and lighter than your XR.
New or old depends on your budget, new is best as you know there will be no problems. But if you can find a lightly used Soul it is a good option. Kite Elements is Flysurfers outlet shop and the have good deals on ex demo kites.
Any 4 line bar will work with a Soul, best is 55cm or larger. Connection is larks head or knobs on any line, simple.
Thanks for good tips.
I don't know how foilkites work yet, but if its the same that kite speeds up when bar is pushed out, then yes I understand. Even LEI's need to be depowered in super light wind to keep the speed in the kite.

Yeah its a debate on the size. But I am mainly looking for a good light wind weapon.
I have the 10 Soul and 15 Sonic, both have a similar low end but the 10 Soul is easier to use in the light stuff and I just use longer lines.
The 10 is a really fun kite, many around my area use the 10 as their biggest size. I need the 15 for tacks, the 10 just doesn’t have enough lift in the light stuff but is fine for no foot change tacks and gybes.

Turbaani
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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby Turbaani » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:45 pm


If your wing is big (>1000cm^2) I'd say to get a light wind LEI kite like the Ozone Alpha or Airush Ultra.

I'm 72kg and usually hydrofoil with a big wing 1250cm^2 in very light winds using an Alpha 8m. I also have a Soul 12m that I don't use too often as it's very easy to be overpowered with this wing. If the wind picks up in the 12-14k range, it's hard to foil with a big wing. You'll have to keep the kite close to zenith, pulling you vertically and put a lot of pressure in the front foot.

Regarding LEI to RAM kite transition...

It was not hard to fly the Soul in my first trials. The only thing that I thought different (and annoying) is that the foil kite is much slower since you have more mass to accelerate. The kite don't need to be worked in sine curves as we usually do with LEI kites. Just find the sweet spot in the wind window that it will tow you.
I am using sabfoil w800, ~800ish cm2 and high ar. Yeah I understand what you are saying because I used to ride 633 1250cm2 wing. That gets overpowered easy, smaller high AR wing doesn't. Even 12m XR feels often way too much for 633. But with w800, I want more power :angryfire:
Maybe I should have mentioned in the start that I guess my riding style could be called free race. I like to blast fast and learn transitions still. Been jumping few times, but I still want to nail my tacks and turns better.

Yeah Soul seems to be the easy fool proof solution. Yeah slow kite isn't the same, but I guess thats the sacrifice I need to make. Water starting is going to be interesting.

Turbaani
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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby Turbaani » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:52 pm

airsail wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:35 pm
Turbaani wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:28 pm
airsail wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:57 pm
I have the Soul and the Sonic, stay away from the Sonic if your new to foil kites. It’s a brilliant kite but you need some time on a medium aspect kite to learn how to fly them. One phrase I often say to prospective foil kite users is that pushing the bar out gives more power, screws with their mind.
As for size, at 74 kg the 12 mtr Soul is more than enough, The 15 mtr may get you 1-2 knots more low end but is a bit of a truck, big and slow and without foil kite skills I doubt you will realise any benefit. The 12 Soul will be more powerful and lighter than your XR.
New or old depends on your budget, new is best as you know there will be no problems. But if you can find a lightly used Soul it is a good option. Kite Elements is Flysurfers outlet shop and the have good deals on ex demo kites.
Any 4 line bar will work with a Soul, best is 55cm or larger. Connection is larks head or knobs on any line, simple.
Thanks for good tips.
I don't know how foilkites work yet, but if its the same that kite speeds up when bar is pushed out, then yes I understand. Even LEI's need to be depowered in super light wind to keep the speed in the kite.

Yeah its a debate on the size. But I am mainly looking for a good light wind weapon.
I have the 10 Soul and 15 Sonic, both have a similar low end but the 10 Soul is easier to use in the light stuff and I just use longer lines.
The 10 is a really fun kite, many around my area use the 10 as their biggest size. I need the 15 for tacks, the 10 just doesn’t have enough lift in the light stuff but is fine for no foot change tacks and gybes.
What are the local conditions there? I don't know the exact windspeed but we get alot of those days where LEI will just barely stay in the air. And you need 0.5knots more to waterstart a tiny hf board. Half of they days are like this and half is 12-14knots.
I will try to get a soul for demo for sure!

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Re: Choosing a foil kite

Postby dave1986 » Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:15 pm

Turbaani wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:21 pm
dave1986 wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:03 pm
I know you didn't ask about Ozone kites.... but i bought an Ozone Chrono V4 13m as my first foil kite. The Chrono is probably not as high aspect as a Sonic, but higher aspect than the Soul.

Personally I have had no issues with the Chrono as my 1st foil kite
Hey Dave, flysurfer isn't the only brand it can be. I just know they make quality products. How do you feel with the 13m? How is the feeling, does it feel slow coming from LEI's, and do you think you could gain some low end with 15m?
I'm about 85kg and the 13m Chrono V4 can get me riding from about 6/7knots. I think there would be a very small benefit from owning a 15m or 18m Chrono (or similar Ultralight foil kite), but the bigger sizes have big compromise on top-end range. 15m probably isn't a bad idea if you are wanting to get the very best low-end and you like to ride powered.

The turning speed for nearly all foil kites is slower than the equivalent LEI. However, you can't directly compare these 2 styles of kites. Foils will keep flying in much lower wind speeds... so for me the slow turning is a necessary compromise which I have to take if I want to ride in 6 to 10 knots as no LEI will perhaps well in these winds (I own a 12m single strut Naish Boxer and it's OK down to about 8knots (only just).
When the wind is stronger I would normally choose to go back on an LEI.


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