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foil kite for 8-12 knots again

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SolarSet
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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby SolarSet » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:29 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:03 pm
tomtom wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:27 am
foil kite for 8-12 knots again is name of thread

there is a lot of kites which can do it

True - we were getting away from the question which are fun/fast down to 8 knots.

I can @78 kg ride with a not very light onestrut 10 m2 LEI kite in 8 knots.

But need a 12 in 7 knots.

So yes, lots of kites can fly in this, but which are lively and fun?

As tomi3000 only wants foil kites, it is more difficult, as it sounds like it has to be the smallest possible size not too high AR (for good turning), so maybe 8-10 m2 twin skin UL foil kites?

But which???

A good question many would be interested in, true.

8) Peter
Hi Peter, where is your top on while riding 12m 1s LEI kite?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:11 pm

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea - I never use any of my kites at their top end...

But go ashore and change.

When riding waves on surfboards, and freeride kitefoil/wavekitefoil - the upper end of a kite is never used.

Of course I have had a few times (but not many) where the wind picked up so I was at the high end (not upper though, never happened) - but impossible to say how much that was, as not consistent so no reliable measures, and went in to rig down a lot.
And the upper possible end is way higher than what you would ever ride if you had the choice - and you choose a couple of sizes smaller than the upper end.

The classic example is me being on a 5 m2 Peak4, and my buddy a tad heavier yes but not big, was on his 21 m2 racefoilkite - and we both rode along and had fun that day :thumb:
Maybe not fully sweetspots all the time, but pretty close :wink:

8) Peter
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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby Flyboy » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:21 am

Just used my 6m Peak 4 in probably the lowest wind yet. I'm going to say around 9 knots. I was surprised that it was relatively easy to waterstart. The reason, I think, is the wind was quite side shore with no swell. This made it easier to balance the board underwater while I pulled onto the foil. The advantage of the Peaks when water starting is the very lightweight makes it easier to keep kite momentum through the up stroke even when underpowered. The tricky part is always balancing the need to pull yourself over the foil against the tendency of the kite to back stall if you're leaning on it too much.

In any case, was able to ride for a while with a lot of concentration when gybing to keep the kite from collapsing while turning - the key being to turn the board tight to re-establish tension in the lines as soon as possible, while avoiding putting pressure on the back foot that might cause the foil to skip out. Pretty nerve wracking really, but I think you do learn something about kite & board control when riding at the extreme edge like that.

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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby Oldman_Dave » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:32 pm

I have a Nova 10m ultralight twin skin for sub 10kts. It's 1.48kgs. I believe it's as big as I'd ever go for foiling. I like it but not 100% stuck on it. I've tried many kites for the 6-9kt range and this is an good as I've found for me. However I want to try the 12 or 14m A-Roam as well.

Flyboy I can get up in about 9kts with my p4 6m. 95kgs, pocket board. I just loop and loop it, after 4 or 5 in one direction I reverse direction. It feels like cranking an engine over. If you can keep balance over the board, big loops, line tension but not stalling, then eventually it catches and away you go.

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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby tomi3000 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:17 pm

I have now decided I will be getting a P4 6m to be used on 9-12 knots days. I am not too much concerned about foiling in < 9 knots as for my riding style it would be too boring anyway so I can try using my Chrono 11m on these rare occasions if I become desperate. I will also try to livened up Chrono 11m a bit by shortening kite lines from 23m to 15m to see if it can add something to the not very fun expirience of flying this kite in very low wind, but again this is just me complaining being spoiled from using P4 with Moses 633 and not very interested in going fast in a straight line. I also have got a big volume/large size foilboard I may want to use on those super light wind days with P4 6m to see how much difference it can make to my regular board Dwarfcraft 4.6 that is still avarage size in comparrison to pocket boards others use. I would deffinietly trade using large twinskin foil kite and small board in 9 knots for using P4 6m and big board as I preffer ease of use of single skin kite handling in light wind above feeling of using a small/pocket board. But I am sure this is personnal prefference and others may do the opposite.

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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby bitxopalo » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:27 pm

Here i(65kg) use a 65L wing board with a 5m P4. 1200cm wing.

Dont know exact wich is the low end of this setup... But as soon as White cups appears I can ride

Moreover is very easy to paddle with a big board in case of P4 on the water. So no stress to use a singleskin.

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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby vanart » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:08 pm

I use Soul 12 m in 7.5 knots and 15m Soul in 6 knots:





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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby Jyoder » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:03 pm

Two days. Same spot, same gear, very similar wind meters, vastly different wind.

Day one: In session A the wind was very consistent. Easy to fly the kite, and easy to ride hard on 15m Sonic Race and pocket race foil. Really fun!

Day two: In session B the wind was very inconsistent, gusts and lulls meant lots of active flying to keep same kite in the air. Kite would back stall during lulls, fold a wingtip, classic zero wind behaviors, then surge and overfly in gusts, requiring lots of attention. Swiss cheese wind. Not consistent enough to even get up on foil, but able to keep kite in the air with active flying.

In letter C, the meters read slightly higher wind averages, but wind still full of holes, similar to B. No joy!

We need more to describe light wind than 6, 7, or 8 knots. We need another value to measure consistency. Some 7 knot days are solid, and some you can feel the wind pulsing on and off and not long enough to get going.
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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby dave1986 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:16 pm

Jyoder wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:03 pm
We need more to describe light wind than 6, 7, or 8 knots. We need another value to measure consistency. Some 7 knot days are solid, and some you can feel the wind pulsing on and off and not long enough to get going.
I work as an engineering consultant in the wind energy industry (wind farm consulting). There is such a value, and it's called "Turbulence Intensity". Turbulence intensity can be calculated from wind data.
Interestingly Turbulence Intensity is typically higher in lower wind speeds.
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Re: foil kite for 8-12 knots again

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:38 am

Interesting - we know it is like that (apart from the higher value at lower speeds), and how "cheese" winds affect us regarding feeling stable but no power.
Also how surface roughness is a factor for wind farms wind gradient assumptions/calculations.

But how is this turbulence measured???

Simply based on loss of efficiency of wings at a given windspeed, or can it be measured in a different way?

8) Peter


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