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Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

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zmax
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Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby zmax » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:12 pm

Reaching out to the foil kite gurus out there. I have recently been plagued with a persistent frontal collapse on my 15m R1v3. I’ve measures bridle lines and adjusted accordingly, speed system is tuned, flying lines are even, yet as soon as the kite gets loaded up while riding it causes a frontal collapse. Any ideas of where to go from here. I’ve heard there might be a structural fix for this. The kites does not appear to have any damage to cells or internal structures.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby mgs » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:24 pm

Hello
Seems a little odd if the kite setup as in the bridles, speed system with the lines all being correct and with there being no indication of damage to the canopy!
I trust that you’re not sheeting out “aggressively” and have flown high AR kites before?
A tad difficult to say what’s going on really!

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby derek440 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:08 am

This is a known fault with some R1V3 kites, there was quite a controversy around this, some people saying there should have been a recall but it seemed to be somewhat intermittent for some kites. But once it starts happening it seems to happen more to some kites. Also I heard that if you are heavier and riding harder and super hard upwind (like you would be on a ML B3) then it is more likely to happen. There is a guy in Australia in Townsville who posted on the FB group kiteracing2hand who has a fix for the inverting issue, I think he uses a combination of a few things including possibly adding a batton depending on the issue with the kite.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby juanpasala » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:40 pm

This is a common problem with most V3 Out there, the problems seems to be with the leadign edge batterns (flexible plastic strut that give structure to the leading edge), after a while theese get flexy, and when they do, the whole structure colapses and the kite frontstalls. According to the manufacturer this is due to incorrect storing of the kite (supposedly it is mandatory to store the kites in concertina), so they dont accept any warranty on the product.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby jakemoore » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:01 pm

At some point in kite age you have to tune it so it flies good rather than trying to match stock settings. Battens, porosity and uneven shrinking in the upper bridle all become issues and to some extent you can compensate by adjusting the bridle and lines. An old kite for example may fly best with back lines a little long or a little short depending on what you have done to the mixer. I like to tune kites on a bar that has extreme trim range from back stall to extreme depower.

The first thing I would try is to move the Z-main attachment point closer to the kite. It’s counter intuitive but has a similar effect as shortening C on fly surfer mixers.

The easiest way is to make a second knot in the C pulley line and move the Z-main to the second knot. New Chrono V4 has similar knots to adjust the bridle. You can move the original knot as an alternative but then you have to make a mark or some other plan to easily rerun the kite to stock setup.

I would suggest moving the attachment toward the kite in 2 cm increments. You should find that as the Z goes from too tight to too loose the following character:

Front stall unstable -> on/off power with exciting faster turning -> nice progressive bar pressure -> back stall boring.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby jakemoore » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:22 pm

8B4BD182-48C2-4827-8336-7B0A5793749E.jpeg
From the Chrono V4 manual. Just make a second knot closer to the kite

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby derek440 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:06 am

Per Juan's comment there was some controvery around this, there are two positions. Ozone's position is that its the customer's fault as they haven't looked after the kites properly, however there are loads of inverting R1v3 kites and some do it from quite new and some do it even if they are concertina packed, so Ozone's theory that Jaun expalined seems like a cop out to many. No matter what ozone and their fans say, there was definitely an inverting problem with the r1v3 but not on all kites and it definitely gets more likely as they get older and/or are abused. Also more of a problem for heavier riders pushing hard upwind in shifty gust winds. It seems they just designed something in the kite that makes it prone to this. The R1V4 has the problem removed btw, its just not a thing any more. The fix I mentioned includes extending a batton or several from the LE down to the B level near the middle of the kite to stop the front middle of the LE tucking and then inverting the kite.
Everythign that Jake has said is normally true, but the R1v3 situation is a bit special. There was some talk of K changes avoid the problem but they weren't unversally true. Also there was a proposed "work around" of extending part of the A bridle by 2cm, that work around also made the kite far worse upwind and it can still invert even with those changes. Having the kite in perfect tune and condition and having the extended LE batton fix is what people are saying stop the kite inverting. ozonefrontstallfix on facebook worked out the fix and has advertised it as a service on kiteracing2hand (I have no affiliation).
Last edited by derek440 on Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby StillLovinIt » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:20 am


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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby Herman » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:02 am

Thanks everybody for interesting info. To me, it seems these super low drag flat kites can not have a lot of spanwise tension in the LE, which presumably makes them easier to luff into an inversion. Has anybody got any experience with, or thoughts regarding, tuning the arc or tips to add a little more spanwise tension at the LE?

PS loved the Facebook video. Seemed to be a fair bit of warning that the LE was starting to Luff. Presumably if the rider had been paying close attention to it at the right time it could have been prevented…..?

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:08 am

It had been seen on some kites, if all of them or just some single ones, I dont know.

I recall the LF Elite, a brand new 12 m2 in 20916/17, with a heavier (but not heavy as such) rider, it front collapsed very often - witnessed it myself, really scary to watch.

A really experienced rider, and not overpowered.

A 10 kg lighter rider on the very same kite did only experience this rarely, but it was still there.

Dont know what causes it though :roll:

8) Peter


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