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Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

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mgs
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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby mgs » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:19 am

Herman wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:02 am
Thanks everybody for interesting info. To me, it seems these super low drag flat kites can not have a lot of spanwise tension in the LE, which presumably makes them easier to luff into an inversion. Has anybody got any experience with, or thoughts regarding, tuning the arc or tips to add a little more spanwise tension at the LE?

PS loved the Facebook video. Seemed to be a fair bit of warning that the LE was starting to Luff. Presumably if the rider had been paying close attention to it at the right time it could have been prevented…..?
Looking at the video in "stop/start mode" it all looks to be quite normal and couldn't see anything wrong or out of the ordinary that led up to the LE frontal collapse.
Certainly it's not pilot error and once the LE goes, i'm not sure what can be done to reverse the situation as the condition your faced with looks to be unrecoverable.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby dave1986 » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:32 am

Ozone are doing a live presentation on 6th October called "Ozone Pit Stop" , where they will help people get their R1s in the best tune before the up coming Races and the Worlds. They will be giving a talk about general tuning and tips

The event will be shown on Zoom and Live streamed for all interested.

There is a Watsapp group for this event (setup by Ozone) which can be accessed via the following link and where the Zoom link will be shared:
https://chat.whatsapp.com/JoBOz9MyMC3GmX3CSiINjx
SmartSelect_20211001-105224_Instagram.jpg
Last edited by dave1986 on Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Herman
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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby Herman » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:51 am

Mgs, I think you can see some loss of tension in the LE prior to the luff but I agree it would be unreasonable to simply label it rider error and I concede that my description of fair bit of warning is optimistic. Of course knowing what is going to happen maybe allowing my eyes to deceive but I still think I can see prior warning signs but you have to be looking hard. Going through frame by frame may not highlight the slight movement that I think I see.

That said, when you are flying a super low drag kite for max vmg you know you are flirting with the point of luff and if you lose that LE tension you don’t have a mast or inflated tube to keep things in line. If kites were more efficient it would happen much more imho. Obviously there has to be a balance between usability and performance but I don’t fly race kite and so take anything I say with a large dose of salt. Better still ignore and follow the advice from the previous post.


PS. I have suffered that sort of inverting luff on an LEI by edging hard against a big fast open loop where the LE buckled at both elbows and the LE luffed to an inversion. I realise it goes from tiny signs to bang gone to invert. Also the safety margin used has to cater for shifts.
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Herman
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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby Herman » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:06 pm

If my eyes have not deceived me and there are small signs of getting too close to the luff, presumably if the rider bore away a little and sheeted in the luff would have been prevented. Which of course explores the balance of performance and usability, and perhaps eyesight. The latter is not a dig or joke, tell tails, even real ones, are not easy to see at fly line distance.

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby mgs » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:33 pm

Looking at the video again (Lost count how many times i have watched it) :-)
It has just occurred to me that the front lines "appear" to have twisted up thus making the front lines shorter as compared with the back lines.
My setup looks nothing like that with each "front line" being separated from each other with the front lines and back lines being of equal length.
As the front lines twist up and potentially shorten whilst in flight, what is the likely outcome?

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby sonny2727 » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:26 pm

mgs wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:33 pm
Looking at the video again (Lost count how many times i have watched it) :-)
It has just occurred to me that the front lines "appear" to have twisted up thus making the front lines shorter as compared with the back lines.
My setup looks nothing like that with each "front line" being separated from each other with the front lines and back lines being of equal length.
As the front lines twist up and potentially shorten whilst in flight, what is the likely outcome?
The lines might be twisted but my R1 V2 does not collapse .. so this though contributing is not the cause

mgs
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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby mgs » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:32 pm

sonny2727 wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:26 pm
mgs wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:33 pm
Looking at the video again (Lost count how many times i have watched it) :-)
It has just occurred to me that the front lines "appear" to have twisted up thus making the front lines shorter as compared with the back lines.
My setup looks nothing like that with each "front line" being separated from each other with the front lines and back lines being of equal length.
As the front lines twist up and potentially shorten whilst in flight, what is the likely outcome?
The lines might be twisted but my R1 V2 does not collapse .. so this though contributing is not the cause
My R1 V1 (15m) doesn't collapse either, so what's your point?

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Re: Ozone R1v3 persistent frontal collapse

Postby Herman » Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:56 pm

Am I missing something? Surely any decent foil will luff, just ride close hauled and pull the front lines or sheet out hard. Or just a big sudden header. Or fly across the window sheeted out and without checking (even peaks will luff this way). Is it not the case of just how sensitive this particular kite is by design and/or tune?


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