Flysurfer Sonic 3 11m

[jbrodin]

I am considering getting a Sonic 3 11m, but I have been told that the 11m has particular problems with folding wingtips. Any experience?

[joriws]

I've not had any problems but my Sonic is quite new and lightly used as hydrofoil ultra-light-wind kite and snowkite. I use Peak4 5m a lot and Sonic only after Peak does not provide the impulse.

If tips curl in direct flight that would be a problem of tuning. If on turn the outside turn tip tucks it could happen but it is not dangerous. I have not observed outside tucking on my flying but I am not looking at the kite but the line.

About outside tip, every kite's design is done that fabric loosens. If fabric kept tight it would generate more lift than inside turn tip because higher angle speed and lift means drag which means kite would oppose turning. Thats why on leis you see and hear flapping on fastest turns and you don't consider that a problem.

On Flysurfer if tip closes a bit it opens and provides power immediately you get backline tension to the tip. If it is bad which is more like a collapse - instead of tip loosing tension it folds and folds backwards generating drag which is felt on the bar too and is harder to open then it should be PMA adjusted or send it back to Flysurfer during 12 month free repair warranty. I think Sonic3 is part of that program, earlier Sonics were not. I apologize if I am wrong about Sonic3's free repair program, check FS web site.

[Gestalt]

I have a bit of experience with the Sonic 3 11m, and the 15m as well. Also had a speed 3 15m before those.
Sonics do require you to maintain line tension with the bar to keep the kites from folding at the tips, but I think this is true for most race style foil kites.

On the Sonic 3 11m specifically I only have the issue if there is a sudden lull in the wind, or tension is not evenly distributed across the kite.
You can see it happen for me here at the bottom of a dive where there was a sudden lull plus a vertical wind gradient differential. About 5seconds after the saved mark (4:22 you see the bottom wing tip fold for a moment):

This really only happens under more "unusual" circumstances and as you can see from my video, 98% of the time it's not an issue.
Personally I love the kite, and probably the one in my quiver I fly the most and would recommend it!

[joriws]

You can see it happen for me here at the bottom of a dive where there was a sudden lull plus a vertical wind gradient differential. About 5seconds after the saved mark (4:22 you see the bottom wing tip fold for a moment):

This really only happens under more "unusual" circumstances and as you can see from my video, 98% of the time it's not an issue.

This is exactly the case I was also describing from a bit different kite steering point loosing lift outside turn. Outside turn wing tip. Looser backlines on outside of the turn, wing tip could be outside of apparent wind window and very low AoA due to WW edge breach.

Also for OP, kite can be also inertia flown to outside of apparent wind window. From there kite enters drift mode. Usually you were diving then turning kite upwards. On that situation the wing tip could fold even more than on the above video, but that is not a problem of a kite, wait it to drift back or carve upwind with board. And adjust your (and 'who told you problems about folds') kite flying technique for better & earlier turns of kite.

Sonic3 11m is just so dynamic kite and timing errors of the flyer might be interpreted kite's fault.

*edit* try to enhance explanation with a pic, AWW = apparent wind window aka rotated wind window by rider (anchor point) movement against true wind.

loose_lines.png (12.34 KiB) Viewed 2476 times

[Herman]

I don’t have Sonics but I don’t recall anybody posting a problem with a particular size.

As above I think it is just a characteristic of this type of kite and you learn to fly it accordingly. Just to complicate the explanation, for a rotating kite the AoA and strength of the apparent wind is going to be different along the kite due to the angular velocity, which means the window will, arguably, not be the same for each tip. Plus the high aspect means wind gradient will have more effect than for low aspect of the same area.

Might be worth noting that if you are looking at secondhand, porosity in the material will make a kite more susceptible to curling tips imho. Cloth and seams.

[Ice101]

I am having a little issue with a new 13m sonic 3 I just bought with the left tip folding in turns and occasionally getting stuck on bridal. Only happens on left side. Just done long and short mixer and all in order in fact seems to have made it very slightly worse since doing them.
I need to contact Armin see if he had any good advice.

[Adventure Logs]

I am having a little issue with a new 13m sonic 3 I just bought with the left tip folding in turns and occasionally getting stuck on bridal. Only happens on left side. Just done long and short mixer and all in order in fact seems to have made it very slightly worse since doing them.
I need to contact Armin see if he had any good advice.

If the mixer tests show it good but she's still turning like that, time to get the measuring out and start measuring lines. Line plans on FS website, start with the side that is curling. You could also try to take some video of it up close while flying to see if you can notice any irregularities in the bridle.

When is it doing this? Powered up, depowered, etc? If I remember correctly, shortening C and B about 1-2 cm(b half that) helps with wing tip curling. Remember to ALWAYS mark your knots before you move them on the mixer so if you do make it worse you can easily go back to the way it was.

[Raynski]

Hated the sonic, went back to the soul real quick

[Ice101]

I like the feel of it in the air and the hangtime is amazing. I can do foot outs just a couple feet off the surface. I can’t do that with the 10m soul as will hit the water before I had time to get the board back in my foot.
It has potential I just need to sort this tip folding out. Since song the mixer it made it a little bit worse. I didn’t mark it before doing it though so still not sure which way to move b and c to make it better.

[lederhosen]

When I had a go on sonic3 11m the wingtips kept folding and getting cought in bridle all the time when drifting a bit or depowering quickly. People who fly it a lot dont seem to have that problem so it seems to be something to learn.
Gin spirit felt similar and didnt have that problem.