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the Hawk from Pansh

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Regis-de-giens
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:01 pm

From my discussion with Funalex and my understanding, it is the same but appears only when you sheet out, which increase the depower ; but I am quite curious about it, so I'll tell you after my test;
in complement there is also a canopy arch increase when sheet-out, which decreases the projected area.

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Bille
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby Bille » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:13 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:01 pm
...
so I'll tell you after my test;
...
If I place an order now ; how long before i could expect it to arrive ?

The 12m looks perfect for my 90.7kg body-weight ; might be the replacement
for my 13m Ozone Edge ?

Bille

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jakemoore
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby jakemoore » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:32 pm

It certainly will be interesting to see if funalex designs brings something to the Pansh. The construction I have seen on Pansh was reasonable but the kites have tried were still pretty far behind. I think the active wingtips in triple depower will probably need even better consistency. There are few 4m closed cell foil kites on the market and fewer that are loved, so if this kite is successful it will be a welcome addition.

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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby evpa1g » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:44 pm

Bille wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:13 pm
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:01 pm
...
so I'll tell you after my test;
...
If I place an order now ; how long before i could expect it to arrive ?

The 12m looks perfect for my 90.7kg body-weight ; might be the replacement
for my 13m Ozone Edge ?

Bille
I've ordered a few Pansh kites. I've had it take 2 months, but the most recent kite I ordered showed up in about a week. I think they changed and started shipping through Fedex. I'm in the USA for reference.
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Bille (Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:12 pm)
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Regis-de-giens
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Gear: Conceptair pulsion 18&15&12S, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, peak 5M , Rally 6, Elf 11 &7, 19m2 single skin proto.
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:17 pm

Bille wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:13 pm
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:01 pm
...
so I'll tell you after my test;
...
If I place an order now ; how long before i could expect it to arrive ?

The 12m looks perfect for my 90.7kg body-weight ; might be the replacement
for my 13m Ozone Edge ?

Bille
if it is for TT why not ; if for hydrofoil, I am affraid Hawk is not really performant under 12-15 knots ...

I do not know for the delivery time, no info from Pansh , neither any email confirming my order ... just see that I have a pending order in my profile.

I saw a question about the impact of mixer test ; from my analysis, when seeing how it is designed, the profile will remain exactly the same as a standard mixer (1:2:4 like Soul, Pulsion, FrS, ect), so "feeling" should remain the same (while Jako changes the profil while sheeting in); only more barre pressure (50% in theory,) and more agility and depower (exactly like if you use a bar of +50% more length and 50% more depower of the kite for same bar stroke) ; same result as using a turbo pulley bar (but turbo barre would gives +100% instead of +50 % in the Hawk)

Briddle arrangement on the Hawk is located to give a bit less bar pressure, so overall the bar pressure is a not fully +50%, but a bit lower ( mentioned to be about +30% vs a standard mixer test on the pansh website) . I think it is an excellent idea to implement such a mixer test (Paraavis did the same one), which is on top settable by the way in case of mixer correction, like flysurfer or Conceptair or others.

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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby merl » Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:05 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:17 pm
I saw a question about the impact of mixer test ; from my analysis, when seeing how it is designed, the profile will remain exactly the same as a standard mixer (1:2:4 like Soul, Pulsion, FrS, ect), so "feeling" should remain the same (while Jako changes the profil while sheeting in); only more barre pressure (50% in theory,) and more agility and depower (exactly like if you use a bar of +50% more length and 50% more depower of the kite for same bar stroke) ; same result as using a turbo pulley bar (but turbo barre would gives +100% instead of +50 % in the Hawk)

Briddle arrangement on the Hawk is located to give a bit less bar pressure, so overall the bar pressure is a not fully +50%, but a bit lower ( mentioned to be about +30% vs a standard mixer test on the pansh website) . I think it is an excellent idea to implement such a mixer test (Paraavis did the same one), which is on top settable by the way in case of mixer correction, like flysurfer or Conceptair or others.
Haha - I can't do mixer ratios just by looking at a mixer this complicated - just can't get my brain to do it.

In an earlier thread (Genesis jaco mod, a mixer also previously invented by Alex) I suggested the notation 2/4:2:1
meaning move 2 on the bar gives 4 on Z, 2 on C, and 1 on B. (The jaco mixer mod was 2/3:2:1). So the effect is like a pully bar, but on a very low bar-pressure bridle design.

Sounds like something you don't need or want on the 4 or 5m kites maybe?

merl
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby merl » Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:37 am

Hmm, so Mr Jackov reinvented a mixer for the Genesis that funalex had independently come up with some years earlier (but with a cleaver way to install it using the lines from the existing bridle).

Now funalex has reinvented a mixer that Jackov first came up with?

viewtopic.php?p=1085311#p1085311

Herman
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby Herman » Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:50 am

To me, it seems a bit dodgy to compare mixer effects with bar configuration. To me a turbo bar is for fixed bridle where the mains are cross linked through a centre line pulley. A pulley bar just approx doubles the effective bar throw. Not that it matters, it is just a bit of geometry. Easier if you just approximate by assuming the mixer operates on approximately the same linear axis, rather than do the trig.

Regis-de-giens
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Weight: 62 kg
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind, waves
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 18&15&12S, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, peak 5M , Rally 6, Elf 11 &7, 19m2 single skin proto.
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:42 am

I love working on mixers :-). Ok maybe not the place to debate here and maybe feed other topics dedicated to mixers.
But in a nutshell Jacko and this mixer are not the same because Jacko will change de camber during the bar pull (less camber when puling in as far as I remember) ; Funalex , or standard, or the one I developped and called 'Malabar" or the pulley bars (that indeed just doubles the stroke) are all the same regarding camber stability.
Only difference is the lever arm felt in your arms vs standard 1:2:4 :
- Pulley bar or Malabar mixer test = +100% more depower, more agility and more bar pressure (geometrical , 2/ 1;2;4)
- Hawk = +50% more depower, more agility and more bar pressure (geometrical, 3 /1;2;4)
- Standard= +0% regarding depower, agility and bar pressure (geometrical, 4 /1;2;4)
... but all the sane camber evolution during the bar stroke ;

Regis-de-giens
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Weight: 62 kg
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind, waves
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 18&15&12S, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, peak 5M , Rally 6, Elf 11 &7, 19m2 single skin proto.
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Re: New kite: the Hawk from Pansh

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:56 am

for the one passionated by speed systems / mixer test , I suggest we write here from now:
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2399006&p=1166656#p1166656
the introduction of this thread gives some explanation for those who are not familiar with the speed systems. It is really more simple that it appears , so for foikite users, don't be affraid if you know nothing about it.


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