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Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

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seppalord
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Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby seppalord » Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:52 pm

I'm looking to buy a new foil kite, but I dont' know how important an adjustable mixer is.

Some folks say it is the most important thing on a foil kite, the others say our mixer is so strong and tough you wont have to adjust anything. Only pully lines need a change now and then.

So, I would be interessted to hear some more thoughts and opinions whether or not having a adjustable mixer on a foil kite.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby joriws » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:14 pm

Well if there is anything to maintain in the foil kite, it is the mixer. You can get away a long time like hundreds of hours without mixer checking and tuning. You can restore performance or fix tip problems with adjustable mixer.

Pre-stretched dyneema mixer pulley lines will shrink on all kites despite what sales man says, usually making b&c lines shorter relative to A and Z causing less performance.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby jakemoore » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:51 pm

At the end of the day every foil kite kite is adjustable by adding pigtails to what Flysurfer would call the B-main, C-main and Z-main lines. Furthermore Ozone demonstrated the adjustability their kites have always had by adding additional knots to the C-pulley line where Z-main attaches. Moving the Z main attachment point on Ozone has the same effect as shortening or lengthening C main on Flysurfer and requires fewer parts and has fewer potential tangles.

I think the marks Flysurfer has put in the upper bridle to do the long mixer test are one of the best innovations I have seen to help get longevity out of a kite. It is easy enough to use a magic marker to mark the bridle of another brand kite to anticipate future tuning needs. That does require forethought.

My own bias is that the double braid bridle lines in Ozone kites do require less tuning.

So I would personally not use the mixer adjustability as the first criteria on whether or not to choose a foil kite brand.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby edt » Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:00 pm

On a brand new kite you don't need a mixer at all. Once you have I dunno about 1,000 hours on the kite it gets so worn that it won't fly right without a lot of fixing. Between 200 and 1,000 hours is when you can make small adjustments on the mixer to bring it back to good performance. You can always add mixers to a kite. Out of the box though and for quite a while it should not need any tuning.

The single must important thing about a foil kite is not the mixer but that you love the kite. That's it! Also I love the flysurfer soul what a great foil kite.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby seppalord » Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 pm

How about different impacts on the type of foil kite (race vs freeride) ?
I have read that race kites, or kites with higher AR tend to go out of shape faster and need more retuning ?

I think I should not focus too much on that feature. Given the possibility to change any mixer system. You just have to know how :?:

The rep I talked to, mentioned no need to adjust mixer. When out of shape, only lines you must change are the wear line in touch with the pulley in the speed system.
I also asked what a new speed system would cost and that was roughly 20% of initial cost (material only) + hours to change.

Flysurfer has set the bar quiet high with their system and its simplicity. I don't know why other manufacturer don't copy that, or implement a similar system.

Good thing I can alway send the kite to the maufacturer and let them do the tuning. I think if you do this in the warranty time, this should'nt be as expensive, maybe even free of charge if you talk nicely :)

Anyway, I can't decide between FS Soul and Gin Spirit, mybe some has flown them both and can tune in to give a little feedback.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby edt » Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:59 pm

Now you're asking the right question. Fly the kite you like better. Unfortunately I've never demoed the gin spirit.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby mgs » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:09 am

seppalord wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 pm
How about different impacts on the type of foil kite (race vs freeride) ?
I have read that race kites, or kites with higher AR tend to go out of shape faster and need more retuning ?

I think I should not focus too much on that feature. Given the possibility to change any mixer system. You just have to know how :?:

The rep I talked to, mentioned no need to adjust mixer. When out of shape, only lines you must change are the wear line in touch with the pulley in the speed system.
I also asked what a new speed system would cost and that was roughly 20% of initial cost (material only) + hours to change.

Flysurfer has set the bar quiet high with their system and its simplicity. I don't know why other manufacturer don't copy that, or implement a similar system.

Good thing I can alway send the kite to the maufacturer and let them do the tuning. I think if you do this in the warranty time, this should'nt be as expensive, maybe even free of charge if you talk nicely :)

Anyway, I can't decide between FS Soul and Gin Spirit, mybe some has flown them both and can tune in to give a little feedback.
Yes FS kites are fitted with adjustable knots as part of the speed system allowing you to keep the main bridle in tune using the markers provided having performed the “Mixer Test”
Looking on YouTube recently there are at last a couple of videos that explain the process very well and using the new FS Mixer Tool.
I fly Ozone Chrono’s (V1’s) that don’t have any form of adjustment with respect to either the “speed system” and the “main bridle”
However, having been successfully using them since 2014 the only part of the speed system that needs to be replaced as needed are the pulley lines PB1 & PB2 as a result of shrinkage and or showing signs of wear. Never had the need to check the main bridle.
You can make PB1 and PB2 pulleys lines yourself if you have access to a sewing machine and know what you are doing.

Good luck :-)

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby seppalord » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:44 pm

Good to hear some real life experience over a long period, confirming the claims from the sales reps reagrding their mixer system. Thanks for that :thumb:

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby Adventure Logs » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:46 pm

An adjustable mixer isn't only good an aging kite but also good to tweak the performance to your liking or tune out a bridle issue after a crash or let's say an encounter with a tree.

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Re: Foil kite with or without adjustable mixer

Postby derek440 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:28 am

RE mixer adjustments I was freaked out by the first foil kite I owned without a sliding mixer adjuster (all things made of rope are adjustable) it was an F-One Halo. I soon learned that you can adjust the mixer using a bit of knowledge of knots and keep it all in tune using a sharpie copying the Flysurfer LMT marks yourself. To me a pro-tune style mixer adjuster is nice but I am just as comfortable adjusting the mixer using a variety of connection knots/loops and/or adding pigtails or splicing new pulley lines. Gin sell a new mixer for Spirit for about 10% of the kite value but I haven't sold any or used any and probably never will. For me the only reason a mixer would be a differentiator in a purchase would be if the design didn't allow for a zero short mixer test (like a Pansh) , not being able to quickly see the short mixer is zero would be a show stopper otherwise to be it doesn't make much difference for me. It's worth remembering that 90% of mixer adjustments are correcting A getting relatively longer than B and C - and letting the brakes out to feel, which are usually easily adjustable.


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