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Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

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derek440
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Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby derek440 » Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:44 am

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merl
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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby merl » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:57 am

And V3 (Firefly)
FF3_4m_04.jpeg
FF3_4m_04.jpeg (482.12 KiB) Viewed 4272 times
https://www.lesfoilz.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... f=4&t=5604
Google translate:
Hi everyone,

Ben (Concept'Air) is releasing a new version of the Firefly these days, called Firefly 3.
Sizes announced: 2, 4, 6, 9 and 11.

I've had the 4 and 6m since April. Ben wanted feedback before the official release.

Ben's objectives for this new Firefly line:
_better upwind
_larger wind range
_less/no flapping

In terms of design for the 4 and 6m, and compared to the previous model, the FF3:
_are slightly longer
_ the 4m (and the 2m seen in the photo) has 2 more air inlets on the leading edge, for more rigidity.
_there are 2 complete cells at the wingtip (over the entire chord), instead of one, and with a profiled bulkhead.
_on the single-skin part of the wing, there are 3 clamping points every 2 partitions.
_the “bulkheads” on the single skin part are less spaced, resulting in one more bulkhead on each side of the wing.
_there may be other changes that are less accessible to my eye (Profile? Volume of the leading edge?).

Regarding behavior in flight:
I confirm the lower and higher wind range. FF3s are very stiff. We get a lot more power in loops and wing accelerations than with the FF2. The shock board is very long and progressive, like a box wing, whereas the FF2 was very on/off. And the wing does not flap when you hit, it accelerates. So it means that we can draw a lot of power from it by driving it and playing on the accelerations produced by the shock.
The high range is also much wider, due to the stiffness of the wing. It stays far at the edge of the window when impacted, instead of narrowing the flight window like the FF2 flapping did.
The upwind is excellent. We go up without thinking about it as with a box wing, and for the reasons mentioned above. The wing is very rigid and does not flap, so it stays far away from the edge of the window even when fully extended.
The steering is very precise. The wing makes right angles. "Like a razor," Ben said. And the useful length of the shock board makes the speed management of the wing very precise.

For the windy beaches, and at 75kg with a 1200 foil:
_I go out on the 6m at 10 to 20 knots, and I went out once in Sweet Potato with 18 knots and it worked very well. I'm very curious to explore its capabilities in surfboard (without foil).
_and the 4m from 15 knots to 25 knots. At 30 knots, it's not comfortable on a strapless foil, but the wing doesn't deform (I had these conditions once in front of a storm).

My more subjective impressions:
These wings are very different from FF2 and I love them. I liked the FF2s for carving down-wind in the waves, but I didn't take them out on flat water because the maneuvers specific to the foil that I love and which require having the wing well at the zenith with a little of sustenance were inaccessible to me.
I take the FF3s out on flat water and I can do whatever I like. When the wind picks up, I switch from the FRS9m UL to the FF3 6m, and I don't lose any pleasure in sailing. I gain even with the very superior drift of the FF3, and the shorter radius of turn.
With the FF2, I went out in 24m lines, sometimes 21m, but not shorter, because they didn't like to be starred. I released the 6m in 18m line this week and it works very well!
The 6m and 4m have good lift at the zenith even in their low range.

Personally, I find these FF3s to be an incredible achievement. They are very different from FF2. I have fun with it in waves as in flat water. I think they are less suitable for children/beginners than FF2 because they are fast and powerful. We get a little ripped off on takeoff in the middle of the window, while the FF2s started off more in chewing-gum mode. You can still have a shorter edge/shock by adjusting the clamping as on the other ConceptAir.
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derek440
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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby derek440 » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:15 am

Great info above on the FF3 and it sounds like very similar design goals and opportunities addressed from the earlier version. The ShamanV3 (snow kite) was a huge step forward in performance from Shaman v2 and goes upwind much better than Marabou V1 which was super easy to use but sat too far back in the window for my liking and for a wide wind range etc. The new version has been designed like the FF3 to be higher performance and first reports are that it has achieved those goals. Can't wait to try them in a few weeks when they arrive in Australia, I put a 6m Shaman in the water on a botched gybe a few weeks ago so am keen for the water relaunch with my freeride foil.

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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby Ulrik » Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:10 pm

Derek, have you flown the new Marabou2, or are you still waiting for the shipment ?

derek440
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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby derek440 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:12 am

Still waiting but our Gin team in Switzerland have flown it and they report that its a massive step forward in performance from the V1 Marabou. I'll report back when I receive these kites, I am expecting this to be a bit of a game-changer, fingers crossed. The other kites that Housi has designed and with similar cloth have been all incredibly high performance, very promising that he spent so much personal time on this and that his team are really happy with the outcome.
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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby geron » Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:50 pm

For me the Hysper 6m from Sky Country is almost a single kite quiver for foiling, it can go from 10 to 24 knots without a problem. The 11m (also hysper) is a grate complement for very low wind starting from 6 to 16 knots with gusts up to 20. For some reason the 4m Hysper si not so good for me because the high wind limit is only a bit more and the 6m is allready very fast in turning and moving in the window (the 4m is a bit too fast and bar throw is too short); for this, It makes irt not very reliable.

I am looking for a complement of this 6 in the higher wind range (up tp 30 knots); I wonder if this Firefly in 4m can be good?

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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby noahsw » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:23 pm

derek440 wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:12 am
Still waiting but our Gin team in Switzerland have flown it and they report that its a massive step forward in performance from the V1 Marabou. I'll report back when I receive these kites, I am expecting this to be a bit of a game-changer, fingers crossed. The other kites that Housi has designed and with similar cloth have been all incredibly high performance, very promising that he spent so much personal time on this and that his team are really happy with the outcome.
Still waiting Derek?

derek440
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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby derek440 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:46 am

The 10m Marabou v2 has arrived in head office and been shipped, mine just hit customs in Australia. I should be riding this kite and reviewing it next weekend.
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a99
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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby a99 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:41 am

in official spec chart 6m range is just from 13knots to 23 knots, not impressive, also aspect ratio is just 4, what is very low aspect kite, but maybe it turns well, still seems Peak5 6 m is better in all aspects, alos weight just 0.8 kg vs 1.1 kg of Marabous v2 6m.

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Re: Single skin foil kite with closed cell LE V2

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:12 pm

a99 wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:41 am
in official spec chart 6m range is just from 13knots to 23 knots, not impressive, also aspect ratio is just 4, what is very low aspect kite, but maybe it turns well, still seems Peak5 6 m is better in all aspects, alos weight just 0.8 kg vs 1.1 kg of Marabous v2 6m.

Dont ever read range charts - they are utterly useless IMO.

If you say it is "not impressive" it could be because it is limited, but could very well also be because they have a much more correct range chart :D
Where others sometimes write from nothing to tornado, meaning if one can run a kite up in the air in 2 knots, that is the low end, and if one can survive without getting dragged downwind, that is their upper end.
Which is stupid but many charts have these useless ranges.

We cant even find a common "good range" for a specific kite here on the forum, even if same weight and gear, we sometimes have complete opposite experiences and likings.

Buy it and try it to find out, if noone else you know well can share :thumb:

8) Peter
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