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The Hybrid from Flysurfer

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Peter_Frank
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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:26 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:16 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:28 pm
A 3 m2 Peak would be spot on in 20 knots, as 4 m2 too big but one can survive yes.
I find my 5m Peak4 to be quite well behaved in 20 knots, so my range on it is 8-20 knots @ 72 kg.

So when do you change to the 4 and 3/2.5 if you ride your 5 m2 to 20 knots?

I am impressed :D

Sorry, a bit off topic from the Hybrid thread.

8) Peter

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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:29 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:53 pm
It seems the 2.5 and 3.5 are excellent, and have the "Peak" quailities somewhat intact in terms of acceleration and spike?

And then from 5.5 and up it goes down the drain abruptly, just like Peaks over 6 m2, no fun...

Makes sense :wink:

8) Peter
No...while I haven't flown the 3.5m, I have flown the 2.5s back to back and there is a stark difference and I would say a good 5kts difference in the bottom end of the wind range because the hybrid doesn't have that spike in its loop. They also fly much differently...the hybrid doesn't accelerate when sheeting out like the Peak.

It's hard to tell by just watching it because they're both very fast kites but the difference is there once you fly them. It's pretty easy to see though when you put them on each other. Much lower AR in the Hybrid. Again this is from flying them back to back in the same conditions, same bar and length, same everything.

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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby djdojo » Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:55 am

Yeah, I agree with Jason - the Hybrid is very different from the Peak. I ride a 2.5m Hybrid when it's too windy for a 3m Peak4. The 2.5 Hybrid is my favourite 30 knot kite but there are many improvements that could be made if a V2 ever comes out. The docility (and abysmal upwind ability) of the hybrid is somewhat acceptable to me in a kite for 30 knots, but in lighter winds I'll take the responsiveness of a Peak any day.

Things to improve -

The Hybrid is very hard to stall and back-fly. This also means it is nigh impossible to pinwheel (when one side is back-flying). Pinwheeling and back-flying are super useful for unspinning lines and repositioning the kite in the window when wave-riding/downwinding. I am regularly pinwheeling my Peaks and really miss this option on the Hybrid.

The Hybrid is awful upwind. I haven't measured but it seems like it points 10-15 degrees lower than a Peak for a similar power level. This is also connected to the absence of a useful power spike. Even if the low aspect ratio was retained, I'm sure the profile could be made more aerodynamic.

The bar pressure is mushy and not linear. There is a big flat spot on the sheeting angle/bar pressure curve - i.e. the bar pressure doesn't change much as the bar is pulled in or released within the useful flying angles of the kite. This also means that steering and correcting for turbulence is far less automatic and intuitive than the Peaks.

The hybrid was initially marketed as a kite for everyone from 30kg kids to advanced foilers and I think this was a foolish brief. The qualities that make this kite safe for a lightweight kid also make it too dumbed-down for a performance rider.

Things I like -

Drift is great. Before the 2.5 Hybrid my strong wind kite was a 2.8 Cloud, and the Hybrid just lets me ride lines and manoeuvres that would have resulted in the cloud falling out of the sky. The drift is enough that I will tolerate all the negatives, whilst still hoping they can be improved.

Relaunch whilst still riding when wingtips are accidentally touched down is great. Probably thanks to the same ball shape that makes it hard to stall and lousy upwind ... (These touch downs are partly caused by the above-mentioned imprecision and non-linearity of steering feel.)

Relaunch from the kite being completely downed is good (but sometimes slow, as the kite can take on a bit of water if the inlet is on the surface). I am very comfortable resetting Peaks to relaunch in 11 -28 knots, but outside this range it gets sketchy (light wind the 5m won't always come up, and strong wind the kite can get more easily get swamped by whitecaps in between the reset and relaunch) so I'm happy to have the hybrid construction for my smallest kite.

In summary, my wishlist for V2 is limited to the smallest size - just make it a little more Peak-ish. (Not Marabou-ish - I've ridden the Marabou V2s in 4 and 6m and they're way too much like a twinskin for my liking).
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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:41 am

Sorry, my point was not to compare Hybrid to Peak as those of us having flown both know the differences.

But it seems the smaller Hybrids do quite okay compared to 5.5 and up, just like one can say about Peaks below 8 m2 being good and then rubbish at 8 m2.

It was not a comparison, only regarding the similar size "jump" in feel.

Or do you find the feel to be the same over the size range?
At least below 10 m2.

Not so with Peaks.

8) Peter

PS: And no I don't think about the natural thing that smaller kites means more wind thus more fun :rollgrin:

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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby alekbelia » Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:10 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:41 am
PS: And no I don't think about the natural thing that smaller kites means more wind thus more fun :rollgrin:
Smaller kites mean more wind AND bigger waves. :heartface: :heartface: :heartface:

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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby merl » Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:02 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:53 pm
It seems the 2.5 and 3.5 are excellent, and have the "Peak" quailities somewhat intact in terms of acceleration and spike?

And then from 5.5 and up it goes down the drain abruptly, just like Peaks over 6 m2, no fun...

Makes sense :wink:

8) Peter
In some ways they are better high wind kites than the peaks - not as manic for occasional users. I've not owned the 3m peak 4, but I bet that I'd put it in the water while trying to get used to it on a bumpy 28knot day. The hybrids are not as lively, but in these sizes plenty lively enough, and the stall resistance feels like a benefit in tough conditions.

The 5.5 requires a bit more finesse at the bottom end so that aspect requires some practice, but it still has the amazing drift (after all, it is both inflated and yet still lighter than the 5m peak) and much better overall range. I've not tried anything bigger than the 5.5, but I would expect that they are getting too slow in those sizes.

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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby alekbelia » Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:24 pm

merl wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:02 pm
...
The 5.5 requires a bit more finesse at the bottom end so that aspect requires some practice, but it still has the amazing drift (after all, it is both inflated and yet still lighter than the 5m peak) and much better overall range. I've not tried anything bigger than the 5.5, but I would expect that they are getting too slow in those sizes.
The Hybrid 5.5 is equal in power to the Pееk5 4. The Pееk5 5 is much more powerful than the Hybrid 5.5.
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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby Smeagle » Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:04 pm

djdojo wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:55 am
The hybrid was initially marketed as a kite for everyone from 30kg kids to advanced foilers and I think this was a foolish brief. The qualities that make this kite safe for a lightweight kid also make it too dumbed-down for a performance rider.
Hmm, really? I remember this very different. I was waiting for the release. I (like everyone I guess) expected a "Peak for the water". Peak was perfect for Kite Foil, it just needed to be water relaunchable. But instead it was marketed as Beginner Kite and for Kids. Only. I remember very well, in the marketing material they even did not list it for Kite Foiling, instead there was a table referring to to Soul for Kite Foil use. Also the prices were extremly high, a lot higher than expected. I was so disappointment after I saw that marketing material, that I started to search for Alternatives on the same day and ordered my Hysper Hybrid on the next day.

- Oliver

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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby Slappysan » Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:59 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:26 pm
So when do you change to the 4 and 3/2.5 if you ride your 5 m2 to 20 knots?
I don't own any smaller Peaks as if it's proper windy I just swap to LEI and surfboard. I might pick up a 4m though at some point, but right now if I think it's going to be 14+ knots I'm not foiling. The times I end up in 20 knots on the 5m are when the wind picks up.
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Re: The Hybrid from Flysurfer

Postby IWantToFly » Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:44 am

Slappysan wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:59 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:26 pm
So when do you change to the 4 and 3/2.5 if you ride your 5 m2 to 20 knots?
I don't own any smaller Peaks as if it's proper windy I just swap to LEI and surfboard. I might pick up a 4m though at some point, but right now if I think it's going to be 14+ knots I'm not foiling. The times I end up in 20 knots on the 5m are when the wind picks up.
Where I’m riding there is barely anyone out below 14kts because it is considered a down day! (That’s only a slight exaggeration.) If you don’t foil in except for very light winds you’d never be foiling.

After another good run of days in Baja earlier this month the 3.5m Hybrid remains my favorite all around kite. The range is great, I’d say 14-30kts, and the drift is unbeatable. The relaunching is really the icing on the cake because it gives me a lot more freedom to play around and do things and know I’m very unlikely to be swimming home.


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