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Soul v1 tips folding

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Adventure Logs » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:17 am

Ice101 wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:39 pm
I have a sonic 3 13m ex FLYSURFER demo kite purchased last summer haven’t been able to use it much as the left side folds like that. Very annoying and waste of Kinsey. No one seems to be able to advise on a fix. Armin stated to try tightening the lines along the section that folds on the lcl’s but it wasn’t very specific as to which points you should do it in and how many. But too advanced for me. Wish someone like benni who designed the thing and understands it all would would advise on the issue properly.
Try shortening c on that side by like 1-2cm. The b will then shorten as well.

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Breze » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:57 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:17 am
Ice101 wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:39 pm
I have a sonic 3 13m ex FLYSURFER demo kite purchased last summer haven’t been able to use it much as the left side folds like that. Very annoying and waste of Kinsey. No one seems to be able to advise on a fix. Armin stated to try tightening the lines along the section that folds on the lcl’s but it wasn’t very specific as to which points you should do it in and how many. But too advanced for me. Wish someone like benni who designed the thing and understands it all would would advise on the issue properly.
Try shortening c on that side by like 1-2cm. The b will then shorten as well.
You could do the C shortening as a quick fix, but i would make a symmetry check first, bc the right side seems to fly stable.
The downside of just shortening C is, the full left profile gets less performance and as Armin said, it is only necessary to change" the profile along the section that folds".
Watch the left side while flying eg figure 8tes , first more horizontal then more vertical. You will see the left side collapsing when it is on the outside of the sharp turn. Try to identify where the collapse begins, typically you have to decide if you want to change the outer 4 sections or more around 6.

For the change of the profile ( after symmetry check, including the outer Z and the Long mixer Test) you can change the profile to more stability in two ways.
1: Make the Lcl of the a lines longer (typically the outer 4 or 5/6)
How to : Have a look into the repair kit there you will find the pink Lcl. These are 2cm long. Undo the knot and make a new one to get a loop 7-12mm long. I like to have 7mm on the inner section and 12mm at the tips.
Unsleve the a lines from the original pink Lcls, sleve the new shortened Lcl between. Refix the a lines on the new knot.
Or make longer Lcl for a cleaner setup ( Liros DSL70) https://www.liros.com/catalog/en/dsl-70 ... ariant=157


2. method ( as Armin suggested)
Shorten the b lines at the corresponding sections with these trim knots https://skywalk365-my.sharepoint.com/:x ... Z48q6bh2kg
https://flysurfer.com/de/2021/09/our-vm ... acecourse/
The problem with the trim knots is the hassle of undoing them if they get tight, it is possible the hurt the thin lines.

My suggestion to all Soul and Sonic3 users:
Keep care of the thin bridles, don`t kink, crinkle, bend them in a tight radius. This will break open the prestretch coating and the dyneema lines will get shorter ( more and faster in the unloaded sections) Just throw them loosley into the folded foil und don`t make half hitch knots with the bridle or the mixer onto the bar stick, just use the elastics on your bar ends.
Be gentle to the thin lines when unknotting loops of the bridle.
Read my comments in this thread of leveling , adjusting the Z bridle to the lenght of A. It gives you the opportunity to check 80% of the profile sections via the " full long mixer test"

I like the possibility of an adjustable mixer, like the FS mixer but i agree with Ice101 there is not much information from FS how to fine tune your kite and what really makes the airflow when the profile is changed. Here FS is in a dilemma. On one side they want their dealer system to help out their clients ( which some have the knowledge and some only seem to want to sell some sparepart lines :naughty: ) On the other side they don`t want to scare off (new) clients with these common , often easy problems of tuning the bridles. FS wants the advantage of performance of the unsheathed, thin dyneema lines vs the thicker sheathed (Ozone,PLKB) but is unwilling to understand that these extremly long lasting canopies need some fine tuning beyond the LMT after some years of use or earlier if the bridle was abused.
Please Flysurfer, think about it. Your best " How to long Mixer Test" video is not on the FS Youtube canal, it`s on "Our Kite Life" !
The FS "How to" videos are misleading and with bad didactics. ( Somebody holding lines on same level, while other person keeps tension with 5 Kg, hilarious,pathetic!)
Why not making some longer LCLs and packing them in the repair kit,( I suggested this years ago on the famous Oase thread " Endlichkeiten Mixer Test") instead of PMA`s which nobody uses and cost performance when unnecessarily used.
Rant over

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Ice101 » Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:05 pm

You seem to suggest lengthening the lcl Armin actually advised to shorten them not lengthen them?

The long mixertest overrules the short one, as it also include at least one A,B,C and Z Bridle.
Go back to delivery if it gets worse.

Check Bridles length at least at the wingtip. Check if something is broken / overstretched inside of the kite, …

If you don’t find any bug, you can just use the PMA at topsail towards the wingtip.
To shorten the top bridles at the wingtip B and C can adjust the Mixer only for the wingtip.

Attached a picture, how you can shorten some top bridles at the LCL.

Cheers, Armin

Cheers, Armin1 Loop at LCL for -8mm.jpeg
Attachments
1FAA6E2A-0CF1-4E46-AECD-6B09C1A9A14A.jpeg
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Last edited by Ice101 on Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ice101
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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Ice101 » Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:12 pm

Can’t seem to add the image. Hate that about this forum. How do I get the image on? Can’t copy and paste grrrr.

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:41 pm

Ice101 wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:12 pm
Can’t seem to add the image. Hate that about this forum. How do I get the image on? Can’t copy and paste grrrr.

And you have downsized the picture to a "reasonably" size?

Same for all sites, you can not add a huge image like your mobile or camera has, just make it smaller :thumb:

And don't copy paste, use the attachment button below, easy.

8) Peter

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby SolarSet » Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:46 pm

I had weird thing on my new Soul V1 year ago, I was very green on foil kite as only 2 year earlier started to kitesurf, what was with my soul was that there was intentional or unintentional knot on B or C bridals and only figure it out when I compared lengths of left to right bridals and notices additional knot.

Another important thing that gets sometimes forgotten is to put front and rear briadals attachment point 10cm away like it would be with connected bar flying, doing mixer test with front and rear lines connected in same place will not allow you to find place where marker A & Z meet making alignment of B to A and C to A pointless

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Breze » Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:18 pm

@ Ice101 please read my post again

@ solar Set , on Soul1 there are intentional knots at the outer b , not sure about c.
SolarSet wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:46 pm
Another important thing that gets sometimes forgotten is to put front and rear briadals attachment point 10cm away like it would be with connected bar flying, doing mixer test with front and rear lines connected in same place will not allow you to find place where marker A & Z meet making alignment of B to A and C to A pointless
IMHO this makes no sense, just have a look at the FS trimm checker, no need to have the fixpoints 10 cm apart

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Ice101 » Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:07 am

Breze wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:18 pm
@ Ice101 please read my post again

@ solar Set , on Soul1 there are intentional knots at the outer b , not sure about c.
SolarSet wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:46 pm
Another important thing that gets sometimes forgotten is to put front and rear briadals attachment point 10cm away like it would be with connected bar flying, doing mixer test with front and rear lines connected in same place will not allow you to find place where marker A & Z meet making alignment of B to A and C to A pointless
IMHO this makes no sense, just have a look at the FS trimm checker, no need to have the fixpoints 10 cm apart
My sonic 3 folds at the around the third stripe in the logo so which connection points and how many do you think I should shorten like Armin shows in the image added above now? Just 5 and 6?

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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby Breze » Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:36 am

@ Ice101
I would start with 5,6,7,8 only b
Instead of doing loops, they are really hard to undo, without damaging the lines ( Armin has this paraglider background and thats their way to shorten lines) Open the loop of the 5,6,7,8 b ( top bridle) unsleeve the pink LCL or leave it installed.Take a ruler and make a mark for the new knot 7-8mm shorter. Loosen the overhand knot of the pink LCL and move it down to the mark. Reset the bridle and fly the kite. If it is unstable then do the same with b9-12. If the instability persists go shorter with the knots,minus 10-12mm from original.
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Re: Soul v1 tips folding

Postby SolarSet » Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:58 am

Breze wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:18 pm
@ Ice101 please read my post again

@ solar Set , on Soul1 there are intentional knots at the outer b , not sure about c.
SolarSet wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:46 pm
Another important thing that gets sometimes forgotten is to put front and rear briadals attachment point 10cm away like it would be with connected bar flying, doing mixer test with front and rear lines connected in same place will not allow you to find place where marker A & Z meet making alignment of B to A and C to A pointless
IMHO this makes no sense, just have a look at the FS trimm checker, no need to have the fixpoints 10 cm apart
there was a big loop on bridals that looked like some accident in factory.
IMHO you need to separate front and rear line otherwise you will never find a point where A & Z marker align.

Please see video below, its in german but you can figure out, guy is showing how line A and Z changes angle of attack of whole wing. Without A & Z being same spot adjusting B & C is pointless because airfoil of kite is wrong



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