Pansh Kestrel, high performance kite

[downunder]

Ok,
"internal holes along the trailing edge to allow for water and dust circulation and exit through the 2 side purge vents " -no. Not that.

Just look how FS closed the TE and how Ozone does it.

FS never accumulates sand on TE. Ozone does.

A15 has almost the same closed TE as FS. The sewing does not close TE panels as on Ozone, its a different style of closing it.
So people resorted making a holes in all sections on Ozones to drain the sand. Since every panel section is closed by the sewing, and there is no webbing like in FS or A15.

Hence, this is an Ozone style.

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2407914&start=10

[PugetSoundKiter]

Thanks for the link, that thread had a video that looks like an easy way to remove the TE sand from Ozone kites. I’m going to try this on my Ozone and A15 kites that have sand trapped.

[Regis-de-giens]

Ok I see now ; I see the interest of this sewing ; It is not a no go for me but I see your concern, which to me concerns most of double skin I know.

[kitexpert]

It looks about ok. Canopy curve is a bit weird and I don't see it that useful. Not an innovation and hopefully not very harmful.

45 cells, miniribs, H-ribs, doubled air intakes, 6.4 AR - quite respectful specs. Bridle spacing is usual and logical, also air intakes are located pretty well. Not a bad design in general obviously

Few years ago I presented here quite similar plan when I was guessing how FS Speed6 was going to be. With normal canopy curve of course

Bridle looks long, very possibly unnecessary long. Wingtips are narrow and thin, getting out of tune pretty fast. But this is not unfamiliar to expensive kites like Sonic3 either.

Turbo mixer apparently makes kite wobbly, at least in one video I watched. Weird canopy curve is also part in this behavior. There is just too much steering input for a kite with that short chord. It may also stress kite and bridle quite a lot, at least if it is used in upper wind range and loading kite hard. But not many skilled kiters will use these kites anyway so stressing kite too much may be less of an issue.

If some a bit suspicious features were fixed this kite could be better. Now I wouldn't buy it knowing how sensitive concept high AR foil kite is. It is also a bit difficult to understand turbo mixer in high AR kites except possibly biggest sizes. And still Pansh offers huge 57cm bar for these kites - why? With a turbo mixer with doubled steering input?

When jumping smaller high AR foil kite can backstall in the air, dropping you like a rock. With turbo mixer this can happen 2x easier. I definitely wouldn't make any higher jumps on hard surface with that kind of kite. Turbo mixer don't give any additional AoA range to kite, it just makes it happen with halved sheeting range and doubled bar pressure.

[Regis-de-giens]

It is not a real turbo, because only 50% gain and not 100%. So not doubled bar pressure: 1.5 factor only. On the Pansh Hawk which has similar mixer, the bridle position has been optimized to reduce bar pressure, so in the end there was only +25% pressure increase in the arm.

A good rider does control how he sheets in or out during a jump, and you anyway need to do the same with any high AR kite. So i see no issues. And it is better for rider that prefer a more sportive driving with a smaller bar. So, pro or cons,. and depending on your skills, muscles and riding style.

I sometimes play with the trim even on high AR kite. So yes it impact the AoA variation "accessible" during a trick.

On my bigger kite, even with 71 cm bar, i often grip the rear prelines for some tricks ( so i even implemented a similar one by myself on my 18m kite). So from my point of view, this mixer is a good feature , that any one can easily "neutralize" if he does not like it.

For smaller sizes, i am not sure it is necessary, but i think Pansh does not want to changed between sizes. Again, very easy to neutralize or even find a way to activate it or not on the beach. I made a post on the hawk on this "custom made option".

Hope Funalex will come and give its view of the design

[kitexpert]

It is not a real turbo, because only 50% gain and not 100%. So not doubled bar pressure: 1.5 factor only. On the Pansh Hawk which has similar mixer, the bridle position has been optimized to reduce bar pressure, so in the end there was only +25% pressure increase in the arm.

A good rider does control how he sheets in or out during a jump, and you anyway need to do the same with any high AR kite. So i see no issues. And it is better for rider that prefer a more sportive driving with a smaller bar. So, pro or cons,. and depending on your skills, muscles and riding style.

I sometimes play with the trim even on high AR kite. So yes it impact the AoA variation "accessible" during a trick.

On my bigger kite, even with 71 cm bar, i often grip the rear prelines for some tricks ( so i even implemented a similar one by myself on my 18m kite). So from my point of view, this mixer is a good feature , that any one can easily "neutralize" if he does not like it.

For smaller sizes, i am not sure it is necessary, but i think Pansh does not want to changed between sizes. Again, very easy to neutralize or even find a way to activate it or not on the beach. I made a post on the hawk on this "custom made option".

Hope Funalex will come and give its view of the design

OK, 50% more makes more sense but I don't see it that necessary either. You can backstall small high AR kite even on usual mixer, why to have it more? And like I wrote it can be dangerous. For bigger kite sizes it can be useful, even though when I was on 18m Sonic3 there wasn't any need for more bar input.

"A good rider does control how he sheets in or out during a jump"

Not true unfortunately. If you could jump 5-10m high on hard surface you would'n't say that. Small foil kite backstalls so fast there is nothing you can do and then you can break your bones or even get killed. And you certainly don't have to do any bar tricks during jump with a proper kite, it just flies on bar fully sheeted in (trimmer on full power, equal flying lines). Finally you give front hand when getting closer to ground, safe and smooth.

Pushing bar out during the jump can be dangerous, if you do that you must have good reason for it. Back stalling kite is a bad reason, or you shouldn't be using a kite like that in the first place.

Apparently you don't understand how "bridle positions" affect but I'm not going to explain it any more. Hawk has usual bridle attachment point locations and they don't make bar any lighter or heavier. There isn't any "optimization" there.

[PugetSoundKiter]

…Bridle looks long, very possibly unnecessary long…”

Slightly higher AR than the Aurora kite, which I assume this is intended to replace. Tried an Aurora1 19m which was ok with some bridle tweaks. Tried an Aurora2 10m and Aurora3 7m which needed major bridle tweaks. Found adding bridle adjustment/extensions were needed which made me think the bridles were too short in the original design pinching/distorting the wing shape. I’ve found the Ozone/Chrono1 and Flysurfer/Speed2&3 bridles seemed to be longer relative to the Aurora2&3…

[funalex]

Hi !

I've found my old password ! I hope these further explanations will bring you answers ... (sorry for my poor english language)

Canopy curve:
With this "inverted V" curvature, when you depower/power the kite, a more important part of the kite will benefit it in the same time. With a classical canopy, only tips are depowered to the max making them collapsing, and the center keep too much power, (or you need to trick with the twisting of tips, and you loose power and acceleration). So you can't depower more, and you can't control the kite in full depowered position. Jumps becomes lower and lower in the very upper range.
With this "weird" canopy, the kite continue to be controlable, and boost you more and more. The depower also contribute to faster turning of course. And the canopy curve is more arched compared to other high ar kites, making the kite turning really better without backstall, you don't have to pull the bar to make the kite accelerating again (loosing direction possibilities), after a backstall, where the kite locked in the middle of the loop, sure, you know what I talk about... in addition, you have the "turbo" 3rd pulley, making the kite responding faster in depowered position, giving more control, but also for high speed foiling, where lots of depower help a lot.

Turbo mixer:
It's not a classical "turbo" principle, this one increase effect about 25%, the control bar is a little harder, but not 25% more than other brands, because the profile alignement (and center of pressure) is moved forward (flat view, or you can understand "delta", also visible with hawk kite, maybe what regis meaned by "bridle distribution"), so, it makes the kite ligther bar pressure in the same time, that compensates. This profile alignement makes also the kite to reopen easier after a wingtip collapse, and helps a lot recover an inversion and relaunching, also with only one back line pull. The increase in bar pressure helps the rider to feel the point where the kite doesn't pull anymore, so, the backstall doesn't not happen more than a lighter bar pressure... So with small kites too, most of chances you always choose the option "with" this 3rd pulley.

Canopy change in flight:
You mentionned a wobbly canopy, probably during a turn... because this kite can depower really more, and the geometry makes the kite changing its canopy more than other foilkite, and during a turn, it can be noticed more. With this kite, you really can send back the kite in the middle of the wind window, (or if you want to surf, small size can do it pretty well because of important depower and stability) without stress, because even in this wind window part, the kite can depower faster.

Bridle stress:
The kite depower is impressive, so the load of the kite decrease, the stress you mentionned decrease too... no more stress than on other kite.

Conclusion:
You noticed this kite is different, it's the most important to keep in mind...

Have a happy new year !

[nate76]

A high-arch, high canopy curve was a bit of a signature design element of Tom Bordeau's kites. The HQ Zeekai and Litttle Cloud Pelican are good examples. The exaggerrated curve reduced tip tucking, increased turn rate, and gave them excellent power through the loop. The Zeekai was quite a powerhouse and a bit of a curiosity as an open cell kite with close to 7 AR.

I always liked the performance chacteristics of these kites and think a high AR/high Arch closed cell would be quite nice.

[Bille]

I just emailed Pansh to enquirer about having a 15m
Kestrel made in all white with the heaver sailcloth.
Where i kite ; it eats up that light weight material
so I wouldn't even consider it.

Where I kite ; wind is also , Not a problem , and if it's
real light wind , I be going Paragliding anyway !

Bille