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Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

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ronnie
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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby ronnie » Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:50 pm

merl wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:10 pm
ronnie wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:46 am
A lightweight depower system I use on my single skin kite. Clamcleat CL260 and 3mm line.
cl2.jpg
cl3.jpg
cl4.jpg
So this is for adjusting the distance below the bar, which in turn influences how sheeted you are when holding the bar at your favourite distance from the body.

I've not seen that cleat before. Also looks suitable for back lines, if one wanted to go that route.

How long have you used it? Any negatives?
I've only recently got the kite. The only problem so far is the cleat can be at different orientations so it can be the other way up or want to be at 90 degrees to the ideal position.

There is no tension on the line below the cleat, so depower is by the line below the cleat ending as a wrist leash and depower is just letting go of the bar. It's a Nasa Star 3 line kite.

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby merl » Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:00 pm

ronnie wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:50 pm

I've only recently got the kite. The only problem so far is the cleat can be at different orientations so it can be the other way up or want to be at 90 degrees to the ideal position.

There is no tension on the line below the cleat, so depower is by the line below the cleat ending as a wrist leash and depower is just letting go of the bar. It's a Nasa Star 3 line kite.
Ah - OK - These probably won't be strong enough for what I had in mind. This is a peak 4 thread, so I thought you were using them on a peak, not a non-depower kite.

(They might work as back line adjusters, but they would be hard to use on the fly.)

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby Mikkelza » Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:25 pm

I have peak4. Use them for light wind foiling.
I recently start using the airush ultra bar (v2). It does not have a trim system. I have not missed it so far. The depower throw is app. 10cm longer than on a bar with a trim system. If too powered up, it is possible to fly the kite with the bar longer from your body/not fully powered up. Gives the same as pulling the trim.
I guess it is fine to use the peak4 without trim system.

Maybe you can make a simple system where you can land the kite (quit easy with the peak on land) and shorten the front lines with a knot system, and the launch the kite again? On the other hand it might not be the most safe, you need it only when you feel overpowered.
(Actually the airush ultra bar has an option to trim the bar, but only without the kite in the air...)

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby evan » Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:17 pm

Does trimming really give you more depower or just a more comfortable bar position?

It's mostly the latter, especially on small sizes and 60-80cm depower cords. On snow it's quite easy to land and adjust the bar to your taste, so it shouldn't be a problem to ride trimless.
The only time I use the trim is to adjust the bar when swapping between kites that are not setup equally. A more used foil kite with shrunken speed system/bridle needs longer back lines for example.

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby bragnouff » Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:11 pm

The most important use of the trim for me is actually in the very low wind range to trim out any backstall/pinwheeling. That means that even if I'm heavy handed on the bar while getting my ass out of the water, the kite still flies forward at speed and builds up power. Overall, it's worth having a trim, and specially since there are many options that keep that very lightweight.

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby martrench » Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:24 am

I just picked up 2 PKS KISS bars for my Peaks. Super lightweight but still have a depower adjustment. Haven't needed to adjust yet since the depower throw is so large but is nice to have if a squall comes through.

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby alekbelia » Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:29 am

evan wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:17 pm
Does trimming really give you more depower or just a more comfortable bar position?
Used no trim bar with Peak4, Peak5 and Click single skin kites for more than 2 years. The same bar for sizes from 2.5 to 9 sqm on water with hydrofoil and for snowkiting.

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby sonny2727 » Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:21 am

Another perspective ...Though in theory, I don't need I use trim to stop accidentally pinwheeling while on water. However, I only occasionally use Peaks so this won't be a problem for dedicated Peak users

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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby Sojourner » Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:29 pm

Hi Martin,
This is a great question. I fly Peak4's on the snow in really erratic wind conditions. On my 8m Peak4, I've been flying it with extended throw on the powerline (without a trimmer). I have long arms and can push the bar away from me and lose nearly all of the power in the kite. For mountains, this has made me much more confident in steep terrain. I have well over 100,000ft vertical ascended on this bar during the last 3 winters.
an ultra light ski touring and uphill climbing bar setup?
If the goal is to use the kite as a ski mountaineering tool, then my strong opinion is the trimmer is unnecessary if your arms can reach on an extended throw.

On lakes and rolling terrain with smoother wind, I'd say a trimmer is nice. The trimmer does bring a level of refinement, especially for jumping or tapping into just the right amount of power.

The full throw of the trim line needs to be incorporated into the length to make use of the kite's capabilities. Yes, it's going to be absolutely flapping with the bar pushed away from you; this instantaneous power dump is exactly what I want in horrible conditions.

I fly on 4 lines with a front-line flag-out to keep it simple. The carbon bar here is nothing fancy, just a drilled out mountain bike bar.
No Trim 2.jpg
Trim.jpg
I mimicked the measurements of a regular factory foil bar (Ozone frenzy for me) : 1) same length steering leader lines. 2) extended power line is length of standard power line + length the trimmer contributes (if I remember it makes the extended power line about 6 inches longer in total).
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Re: Do I need (depower) trim for Peak4?

Postby bitxopalo » Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:48 am

Smeagle wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:15 am

I used a 3,5mm Depower line (960kg, really strong enough) + XTR Slide protect sheeting... After stretching my depower line is ~3,5mm, thin but really stong enough...
Hi Smeagle, which is the reason of using core+cover? I am using 4mm DX CUP, https://www.premiumropes.com/dx-cup
Is a similar solution?
Thanks


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