Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

For all foil kite riders
User avatar
alekbelia
Medium Poster
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:11 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Weight: 100 kg
Style: hydrofoiling, waveriding
Gear: VMG2 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 23 sqm
Ozone R1V3 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21 sqm
Peak5 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
Click 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
RRD Religion 4, 5, 6, 7 sqm
Wave RRD Cotan 5.4
Hydrofoils Levitaz R5, Chubanga V3, RDB 860
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

Postby alekbelia » Wed May 24, 2023 8:59 am

I have been using single skin kites with both skis and hydrofoils for several years now. Until recently I used sizes up to 6 sq.m. Especially for Col du Lautaret flights I also bought a 9 sq.m kite.
I have noticed that I maintain very good downwind and upwind angles with this kite. Here's what the latest experiment showed.
Kite 9 sq.m. Freeride hydrofoil with 860 sq.cm. front wing. Rider weight 100 kg. Wind speed 6 m/s.
When going upwind the angle is only about 5 degrees less than 45 degrees, which for such a cheap and simple kite is a very good result.
When moving downwind, the result is even better and exceeds 45 degrees, which turns the single-layer kite into a real downwind machine!
To maintain speed on the downwind of the waves I used loops when the speed decreased on the opposite side of the wave.
Average travel speed was 27 km/h and one fall into the water. The maximum speed is 40 km/h.
Attachments
UDE02.jpg
UDE01.jpg

User avatar
Janus
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:34 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Private Kite & Wing Beach d'Epine
Style: Freeride
Gear: *
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 130 times

Re: Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

Postby Janus » Wed May 24, 2023 9:29 am

I don't get the down wind part, you mean powerd up?
I can go completely downwind with my Peaks riding the waves, kite drifts with me.. (in decent wind, not in low wind with bigger sizes))

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 12667
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 977 times
Been thanked: 1157 times

Re: Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 24, 2023 9:47 am

It makes sense to measure downwind angles NOT using a wave, as otherwise it would not be useful.

Which 9 m2 kite was this Alex?

Do you have the VMG's up and downwind respectively?

Agree, impressive angles for a single skin kite :thumb:

8) Peter
These users thanked the author Peter_Frank for the post:
alekbelia (Wed May 24, 2023 9:51 am)
Rating: 3.03%

User avatar
alekbelia
Medium Poster
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:11 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Weight: 100 kg
Style: hydrofoiling, waveriding
Gear: VMG2 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 23 sqm
Ozone R1V3 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21 sqm
Peak5 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
Click 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
RRD Religion 4, 5, 6, 7 sqm
Wave RRD Cotan 5.4
Hydrofoils Levitaz R5, Chubanga V3, RDB 860
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

Postby alekbelia » Wed May 24, 2023 9:51 am

Janus wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:29 am
I don't get the down wind part, you mean powerd up?
Yes. Powered. The wave in this experiment was small, but it affected speed and angle.
I love hydrofoil riding in waves and only use singleskin kites, but here the experiment was more about what angles are achievable with a singleskins.
These users thanked the author alekbelia for the post:
Janus (Wed May 24, 2023 12:27 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

User avatar
alekbelia
Medium Poster
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:11 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Weight: 100 kg
Style: hydrofoiling, waveriding
Gear: VMG2 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 23 sqm
Ozone R1V3 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21 sqm
Peak5 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
Click 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
RRD Religion 4, 5, 6, 7 sqm
Wave RRD Cotan 5.4
Hydrofoils Levitaz R5, Chubanga V3, RDB 860
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

Postby alekbelia » Wed May 24, 2023 9:56 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:47 am
Which 9 m2 kite was this Alex?
Do you have the VMG's up and downwind respectively?
Agree, impressive angles for a single skin kite :thumb:
8) Peter
Again with my Windmaster Click 9 sqm.
Just a few days ago I tried to achieve good angles and with my 5 sq.m. kite, but it turned out to be disappointing.
So "size matters". :D
It was a small and quick experiment. However, I also have racing gear and waveriding with singleskins is a bit of a hobby. I'm just sharing a pleasant surprise with all singleskin lovers.

FunOnTheWater
Medium Poster
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu May 11, 2023 3:49 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 74
Style: Freeride Foil, Wave, Twintip.
Gear: Gong, reedin, sabfoil, blade, Duotone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Hydrofoil and Singleskin Upwind Downwind Angles

Postby FunOnTheWater » Wed May 24, 2023 11:18 am

I have someting interesting for foilers liking high performance foiling LEI. I have made a "PRO briddle" for GONG Struttless.
The Upwind and Downwind angles are extreme good. Due to the Struttless concept it has a benefit and we can tune it super to the edge, as it is intrinsicly stable and drift, so the kite it could overfly my head when pulling in the bar at beach, which is no problem during foiling due to DRAG. But at alltimes it is stable, when loosing the bar, the kite flaps and will sit deeper and cannot overfly, perrfectly drift. So allmi you hands.

DRIFT mode, flapping, reduce forward speed, sits bit deeper in window. = Bar full away
Upwind mode, = bar powered just till flapping stops
Starting mode / or fast Downwind = bar pulled in with loop very powerfull opened up kite.
Stall mode / reverse start = fully pulled rear lines.

Strutless concept, take note, when in drifting flapping mode, it must be with reduced tension, so sailing downwind or in use lowinds etc.
So use smaller kites or best for foiling application and kites will last long.



-Extreme AOA, change, additional pully. (full control)
-Dump and depower more power, and wider useable wind range. Very easy to dump power, f.i. in downloops easy even when highpowered etc.
(you can foil WAVES without completely without any power, pure drift if on the right size Strutless)
-Wider and flatter ARC, with much more twist and opening up for power.
-Very good grunt, for starts.
-Very good pull at edge of windows.
-Flapping equal over full ARC.
-Keep Good power in up-stroke (easy get up on foil)
-Flies very well, even better in low wind, as the kite is briddled more to the front.
-Higher max power per M2
-Due to struttles flapping when loosing the bar, kite positions itself bit deeper in window, it kills aerodynamics, and kills forward flying speed, so it slowsdown, sits flagging.
Loosing the bar is safe, less changes kite slam into the water, good for learning foil.
-Very best upwind and very best down wind behaviour.
-Gong strutless has quite high AR. (fly fast good performance, but not fastest turn as UFO)
-Super stable kite never falls in water.



but;
-Bit more bar pressure, but absolutely fine for small kites (would not go bigger than 10m for LEI)
-Bit more stroke on the bar, but absolutely fine for small kites, easy for learning.
-Kite needs to be pumped super hard, max needle on my pup 12PSI. (but after sailing 3 years no issue)
-Not recommended for super heavy load applications, high powered jumps, kiteloops, just for foiling is ok.
As due to thing leading edge, it could cause, some corner folding. (but absolute no issue for foiling)
-The bigger size 9M - 10M, may be bit of slow turning. (I hope GONG add 3M-4M-6M-8M to the range...)
-Kite is not difficult, but would say experienced.


I have been flying the my custom "Pro Briddle" on my Strutless V3 6m and 10m, hundereds of sessions....

Recently I have bought GONG Strutless V4 5m-7m-9m and tuned new briddles, but they got stolen from my car and all tuning work, almost done got's lost.
But I bought new V4 ones, and I am getting there again.

Each tuning, is optimised tested and is trade off, bar pressure, upwind, flapping in turns, stroke, moving up from 45degree corner etc.
It needs to be done in lowest stable constant wind 8 knots wind. After many briddles I think have found very best trade Off for foiling and makes GONG Strutless really, different and exceptional kite.

The GONG construction and materials are strong and resistant UV wear and tear. Double layer at TE and the materials hold up well.
They can fly without any battens, but I recommend use the middle batten (certainly for 9m-7m), as it will have the best balance point.

Kite works on Surf board (and Twintip), easy on the leg LEG and fast, no freight train, you can take size smaller and it likes to ride fast amd good upwind.
On WAVE board, 9m is getting too much in 20knots.... (74kg). But freestyle WAVE and TWINTIP, high powered wind etc I would recommend take 3 strut.
For downwind wave riding, so wind dumping, smal strutless sizes are good.

Strutless in higher than 9m-10m, for hydrofoil for super lowwind <8knot. I would not recommend better 13m-15m foilkite.

For waterstart, it is always reliable easy in 10+ knots flat water, but when water got trapped behind leading it needs wind to lift a tip....
Not tumble/crash in waves/washing machine, as it could happen kite inverts and to open valve/ twist and re-pump. (I had it with 10m once happen, no damage)
These users thanked the author FunOnTheWater for the post:
Breze (Wed May 24, 2023 8:43 pm)
Rating: 3.03%


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests