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Hybrid vs Marabou2

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Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Adventure Logs » Sun May 28, 2023 5:40 am

Since being able to get on the water again I've been riding my Gin Marabou2 8m quite a lot. Today I did a session on my Flysurfer Hybrid 7.5m and wanted to write down some observations of the differences between the two while it was still fresh on my mind. This is comparing the Gin 8m and FS 7.5m on same bar and local spot.

Today at the time of my session it was reporting 16mph with gusts to 20 all increasing through the hour session. I have the performance knots on the Hybrid on the outside of the third knot(closest to the line ends).

The Marabou2 is much more powerful. Today I knew I'd be overpowered on the M2 which is why I pull the Hybrid out. I didn't feel overpowered at all on the Hybrid. Along with that the Marabou2 has a much more powerful loop. I've been riding it lately on the top part of its wind range and I'm usually afraid to loop to start because it would pull me off the board and out of the water. Today I could loop the Hybrid no problem, easy to get up on foil that way. To really get any decent power out of the loop on the H you need to do more of a horizontal oval like the Peaks. This less powerful loop is a big reason why you have to go up 2 sizes to get the same wind ranges as the Peaks. I haven't ridden the M2 6m but I would put decent money it would match the Hybrid 7.5s wind range closer.

The Hybrid turns tighter but slower than the M2. Again it turns without power. To get it to loop while foiling I usually have to grab the steering lines above the bar to get it to loop fast enough. The M2 more arcs in the turn while producing power. This fits my riding style more since I tend to rig the smallest kite possible/always riding the bottom of the wind range. This can become an issue though in overpowered conditions.

I think the Hybrid drifts a little better but really not that much. It does hold its shape pretty well but so does the M2(I should have some 4 line slack of the Marabou up soon on YT). It's easy to get ahead of the H since it's slower and doesn't shoot forward in the windwindow but for the most part it's ok with this. The M2 needs a little bit more attention when you get ahead of it.

Marabou2 has significantly better upwind angles. Better than the Peaks while the H is worse than the Peaks.

Absolutely no backstall with the Hybrid unless you really force it.

Bar pressure and kite power is much more progressive with the Marabou2. Hybrid is all in the last couple inches of bar travel and is much more on/off. I prefer the way the Marabou2 is except when really overpowered. The Hybrid is easier to handle overpowered due to that.

Hybrid has higher bar pressure for sure. This is compounded since you need to ride it mostly sheeted in.

Hybrid relaunches easier but is difficult to reverse launch.

Hybrid takes twice as long to inflate than the Marabou2. I was really surprised by this since FS has inflation down pretty well. It takes a little more effort to get the Marabou2 initially launched though completely deflated. The way the bridle is, it doesn't really lift the leading edge/intake into the wind as well. No big deal if you remember while setting it up to raise the leading edge beforehand but I tend to forget. I never preinflate my kites.

Marabou2 is much easier to backstall solo land. The rounded shape of the Hybrid makes it bounce around more and not just sit there. I think on a tether the Hybrid would be much better and doable. Today I tried just to walk up one steering line but I'll never do that again. Ended up being a huge tangle.

The Hybrid majorly flutters. Like really really badly. Marabou2 barely will flutter. You definitely feel the a Hybrid at the bar and I can hear it even over my music.

I like the thicker bridle lines of the M2 but greatly miss the adjustable bridle like the Flysurfer has. Let's see how long the M2 stays in tune.

Hybrid has a huge butthole so it deflated easier when packing up. Gotta really check the Velcro before you launch though. Since it's so big it's easier to come undone during a session. I'm a strong believer that zippers shouldn't be on kites but so far no issues with it on the M2. We shall see how long that lasts.

Marabou2 has a significantly lower bottom for the wind range but is still manageable at 20kts+. It will build more power the faster it flies which can be an issue on the top end. Hybrid doesn't build power with speed. I've been able to ride the Marabou2 in 9-25mph. Haven't had very many light wind days to see its ultimate low end. I would say the Hybrid is at least 3/4mph higher on the low end and haven't found the top end yet.

Just personal preference but I like the color scheme/design of the M2 more. It's a good looking kite with bright colors.

I want to get a M2 6m since I think it would match my Peak5 6m range better.

That's all I can think for now. Let me know if you have any questions.

=Jason-
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun May 28, 2023 9:54 am

You should compare a 6 m2 M2 with the Hybrid 7.5 would be my take, if you get one Jason.

Differences partly the same would be my guess but maybe the M2 would turn just as narrow in this size?

Almost like I would (did) compare a Peak 5 or 6 m2 with the Hybrid 7.5 because they were closer powerwise.

8) Peter
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Adventure Logs » Sun May 28, 2023 1:46 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 9:54 am
You should compare a 6 m2 M2 with the Hybrid 7.5 would be my take, if you get one Jason.

Differences partly the same would be my guess but maybe the M2 would turn just as narrow in this size?

Almost like I would (did) compare a Peak 5 or 6 m2 with the Hybrid 7.5 because they were closer powerwise.

8) Peter
I would love to get a 6m but being on unplanned medical leave for 18 months has severely impacted my finances so it's gonna be a little while before I can get new gear(someone buy my old gear!!).

I do like to compare similar sizes though and the 7.5m and 8m are the closest matches. I think it is better way to compare actual wing designs plus it's just what I have right now. I would thinj the Peak5 5m and Hybrid 7.5m are most likely closer to each other powerwise(never had the P 5m though) but that's a pretty drastic size up in size for the Hybrid which comes with all the disadvantages of a larger kite. IMO while hydrofoiling, the smaller the kite the better, it's just so much more fun.
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mu2e » Sun May 28, 2023 8:47 pm

I really love the M2 4m, I end up using it 80% of the time , I stop using my UFO, everything above 14knts into the 20+knts, such a fun kite, some Peak DNA with more linear feeling.

I manage to try back to back crashing the H and the M2 into small breaking wave, both relaunch, no issue here, the H much faster, M2 needed more time to settle in before take off, could be an issue in bigger wave condition, if no crashing wave, I am confident on the M2, at least the 4m in 14knts wind.

I recently added the M2 6M, It is more powerful than my 7m UFO so far, the loop make me start to ride from 10knts with my weight and foil set up, I need more session to make a solid opinion on the 6m, but the few session I had so far deliver very good feeling.

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mashimisha2 » Mon May 29, 2023 1:45 pm

For the wind in my area (14-24 knots), the perfect size is the 5m Peak.

It sounds like the Hybrid 5.5 would not provide the same power and I would have to go up to the 7.5.
I would prefer not to do that as even the 6m Peak lacks the magic of the smaller sizes.

Is the 4m Marabou2 a viable alternative to the Peak 5?

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon May 29, 2023 5:13 pm

mashimisha2 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 1:45 pm
For the wind in my area (14-24 knots), the perfect size is the 5m Peak.

It sounds like the Hybrid 5.5 would not provide the same power and I would have to go up to the 7.5.
I would prefer not to do that as even the 6m Peak lacks the magic of the smaller sizes.

Is the 4m Marabou2 a viable alternative to the Peak 5?

Amazed you ride so powered?

In 14-25 knots I would use a Peak in 4 m2 first in the low end, and above 18 knots change to a 3 m2.

Being 78 kg.

I havent found the 6 m2 lacking any magic, on the contrary, the most used size as small Peak magic and use it from 9 to 11/12 knots, then go to a 5 m2.

But I ride surf style, so maybe the difference :naughty:

With the 5 m2 Peak I would be able to ride a bit overpowered on a surfboard in 24 knots (have tried in 22-23 knots where it fits spot on) so that is a lot of wind, where I use a 6 or 7 m2 LEI on surfboards.

For this huge windrange 14-24 knots, the Hybrid 5.5 should fit very well I think.

Without having tried it, I would thing the 4 m2 Marabout2 would fit your purpose :D

8) Peter
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mu2e » Mon May 29, 2023 6:58 pm

mashimisha2 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 1:45 pm
For the wind in my area (14-24 knots), the perfect size is the 5m Peak.

It sounds like the Hybrid 5.5 would not provide the same power and I would have to go up to the 7.5.
I would prefer not to do that as even the 6m Peak lacks the magic of the smaller sizes.

Is the 4m Marabou2 a viable alternative to the Peak 5?
For me the 4m M2 is more similar to the 4m Peak in range wind, for the wind you mention it should be spot on.

When laying out the Peak 4m on the M2 4m, very similar shape. M2 is little rounded on the side , I suppose for better water relaunch.
IMG_6688.JPEG
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mashimisha2 » Mon May 29, 2023 11:41 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:13 pm
For this huge windrange 14-24 knots, the Hybrid 5.5 should fit very well I think.

Without having tried it, I would thing the 4 m2 Marabout2 would fit your purpose :D

8) Peter
In previous years riding a twin tip, the perfect kite for 80% of the days (15 knots I think) was a Soul 12m.
Under the same conditions kite foiling this year, I have been most comfortable on a 5m Peak.

At this point, I do not have to swim in very often with the Peaks, but I would like to visit neighbouring islands and I would not like to cross the open ocean with a kite that does not relaunch reliably. If the kite is too small, then I cannot go out at all. If the kite is a bit big, then I depower a bit.

It is strange that the wind range recommended for the Marabou 6m (13-23) is higher than the wind range for the Peak 5m and Hybrid 5.5 (12-22).

mashimisha2
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mu2e » Tue May 30, 2023 10:35 am

mashimisha2 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 11:41 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:13 pm
For this huge windrange 14-24 knots, the Hybrid 5.5 should fit very well I think.

Without having tried it, I would thing the 4 m2 Marabout2 would fit your purpose :D

8) Peter
In previous years riding a twin tip, the perfect kite for 80% of the days (15 knots I think) was a Soul 12m.
Under the same conditions kite foiling this year, I have been most comfortable on a 5m Peak.

At this point, I do not have to swim in very often with the Peaks, but I would like to visit neighbouring islands and I would not like to cross the open ocean with a kite that does not relaunch reliably. If the kite is too small, then I cannot go out at all. If the kite is a bit big, then I depower a bit.

It is strange that the wind range recommended for the Marabou 6m (13-23) is higher than the wind range for the Peak 5m and Hybrid 5.5 (12-22).

mashimisha2
I don't trust wind range recommended from brand , too optimistic to appeal for everybody need, they are too many variable to make it accurate.

I would trust user feedback community based with foil, riding style, weight and experience. Peak wind range is well documented for kitefoil so good reference point to compare new kite. Based on user feedback so far.

we could easily say that Hybrid FS is ≈35% lower m2/Power vs a Peak.

Peak 4m= Hybrid FS 5.5m for what I have try so far in the same wind range and same gear.
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mashimisha2 » Tue May 30, 2023 11:00 am

mu2e wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 10:35 am
I don't trust wind range recommended from brand , too optimistic to appeal for everybody need, they are too many variable to make it accurate.

I would trust user feedback community based with foil, riding style, weight and experience. Peak wind range is well documented for kitefoil so good reference point to compare new kite. Based on user feedback so far.

we could easily say that Hybrid FS is ≈35% lower m2/Power vs a Peak.

Peak 4m= Hybrid FS 5.5m for what I have try so far in the same wind range and same gear.
Now, THAT is valuable advice. Thank you. Just what I needed to hear.


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