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Hybrid vs Marabou2

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merl
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby merl » Tue May 30, 2023 4:06 pm

mashimisha2 wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 11:00 am
mu2e wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 10:35 am
I don't trust wind range recommended from brand , too optimistic to appeal for everybody need, they are too many variable to make it accurate.

I would trust user feedback community based with foil, riding style, weight and experience. Peak wind range is well documented for kitefoil so good reference point to compare new kite. Based on user feedback so far.

we could easily say that Hybrid FS is ≈35% lower m2/Power vs a Peak.

Peak 4m= Hybrid FS 5.5m for what I have try so far in the same wind range and same gear.
Now, THAT is valuable advice. Thank you. Just what I needed to hear.
It would be valuable if it was true for all, but I don't really agree with it. You are saying that the 5.5 is like a (hypothetical) 3.6m peak (5.5 * 0.65). Nope. The bottom end is closer to the 5 than the 4 in my opinion. But maybe you are talking top end?

Also, I don't think the power ratio between peak and hybrid the same across the range - the smaller ones should be closer than the larger ones in power. Otherwise the 3.5 would be "smaller" than the 2.5m peak which is nonsense in my opinion.
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mu2e
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mu2e » Tue May 30, 2023 4:58 pm

merl wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 4:06 pm
mashimisha2 wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 11:00 am
mu2e wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 10:35 am
I don't trust wind range recommended from brand , too optimistic to appeal for everybody need, they are too many variable to make it accurate.

I would trust user feedback community based with foil, riding style, weight and experience. Peak wind range is well documented for kitefoil so good reference point to compare new kite. Based on user feedback so far.

we could easily say that Hybrid FS is ≈35% lower m2/Power vs a Peak.

Peak 4m= Hybrid FS 5.5m for what I have try so far in the same wind range and same gear.
Now, THAT is valuable advice. Thank you. Just what I needed to hear.
It would be valuable if it was true for all, but I don't really agree with it. You are saying that the 5.5 is like a (hypothetical) 3.6m peak (5.5 * 0.65). Nope. The bottom end is closer to the 5 than the 4 in my opinion. But maybe you are talking top end?

Also, I don't think the power ratio between peak and hybrid the same across the range - the smaller ones should be closer than the larger ones in power. Otherwise the 3.5 would be "smaller" than the 2.5m peak which is nonsense in my opinion.
Hey Merl, yes I believe you cannot compare all size in the same way, it is valid for all kind of kite., I didn’t try myself otherwise size in the Hybrid than the 5.5 as well.

I am only mentioning the 4m peak closest match is the 5.5 hybrid in the product range of Hybrid size for the similar the wind range we mention. It is not a 1:1 ratio from Peak to Hybrid at least for me.

(I took 4 to 5.5 is roughly 35% increase)

Coming back to the topic, I would say the 4m M2 end up on this 14/22knts range as the 5.5 Hybrid. (on my foil set up and weight).

I am curious to know what other experience as well to create a good commun knowledge.

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby IWantToFly » Tue May 30, 2023 8:16 pm

mu2e wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:47 pm
I really love the M2 4m, I end up using it 80% of the time , I stop using my UFO, everything above 14knts into the 20+knts, such a fun kite, some Peak DNA with more linear feeling.

I manage to try back to back crashing the H and the M2 into small breaking wave, both relaunch, no issue here, the H much faster, M2 needed more time to settle in before take off, could be an issue in bigger wave condition, if no crashing wave, I am confident on the M2, at least the 4m in 14knts wind.

I recently added the M2 6M, It is more powerful than my 7m UFO so far, the loop make me start to ride from 10knts with my weight and foil set up, I need more session to make a solid opinion on the 6m, but the few session I had so far deliver very good feeling.
What do you think the top end of the 4m M2 would be? I need to get something smaller than my 5m Peak5 and I’m looking at 4m Peak or 3.5m hybrid. My goal is surfing swell.

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby mu2e » Wed May 31, 2023 10:38 am

IWantToFly wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 8:16 pm
mu2e wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:47 pm
I really love the M2 4m, I end up using it 80% of the time , I stop using my UFO, everything above 14knts into the 20+knts, such a fun kite, some Peak DNA with more linear feeling.

I manage to try back to back crashing the H and the M2 into small breaking wave, both relaunch, no issue here, the H much faster, M2 needed more time to settle in before take off, could be an issue in bigger wave condition, if no crashing wave, I am confident on the M2, at least the 4m in 14knts wind.

I recently added the M2 6M, It is more powerful than my 7m UFO so far, the loop make me start to ride from 10knts with my weight and foil set up, I need more session to make a solid opinion on the 6m, but the few session I had so far deliver very good feeling.
What do you think the top end of the 4m M2 would be? I need to get something smaller than my 5m Peak5 and I’m looking at 4m Peak or 3.5m hybrid. My goal is surfing swell.
I swap to 3m Peak when it start to be a over 20knts and gusting 25knts.

I am also curious to know the wind range of the H 3.5m and H2.5m to replace my Peak 3m.
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Adventure Logs (Wed May 31, 2023 4:51 pm)
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Gerwinnaar » Wed May 31, 2023 1:14 pm

mu2e wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 10:38 am
IWantToFly wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 8:16 pm
mu2e wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:47 pm
I really love the M2 4m, I end up using it 80% of the time , I stop using my UFO, everything above 14knts into the 20+knts, such a fun kite, some Peak DNA with more linear feeling.

I manage to try back to back crashing the H and the M2 into small breaking wave, both relaunch, no issue here, the H much faster, M2 needed more time to settle in before take off, could be an issue in bigger wave condition, if no crashing wave, I am confident on the M2, at least the 4m in 14knts wind.

I recently added the M2 6M, It is more powerful than my 7m UFO so far, the loop make me start to ride from 10knts with my weight and foil set up, I need more session to make a solid opinion on the 6m, but the few session I had so far deliver very good feeling.
What do you think the top end of the 4m M2 would be? I need to get something smaller than my 5m Peak5 and I’m looking at 4m Peak or 3.5m hybrid. My goal is surfing swell.
I swap to 3m Peak when it start to be a over 20knts and gusting 25knts.

I am also curious to know the wind range of the H 3.5m and H2.5m to replace my Peak 3m.
I have a Hybrid 3.5m I can get going from 20knots (maybe just a bit less but 20is fine) . I flew it until 30knots but i think it can go much higher. I bought it to replace my 4m peak5 but that isn’t a replacement so I guess it’s a good replacement for the peak 3m or 2.5m.
I have my 3.5m hybrid for sale (Netherlands)

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Adventure Logs » Wed May 31, 2023 4:54 pm

mu2e wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 10:38 am
IWantToFly wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 8:16 pm
mu2e wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:47 pm
I really love the M2 4m, I end up using it 80% of the time , I stop using my UFO, everything above 14knts into the 20+knts, such a fun kite, some Peak DNA with more linear feeling.

I manage to try back to back crashing the H and the M2 into small breaking wave, both relaunch, no issue here, the H much faster, M2 needed more time to settle in before take off, could be an issue in bigger wave condition, if no crashing wave, I am confident on the M2, at least the 4m in 14knts wind.

I recently added the M2 6M, It is more powerful than my 7m UFO so far, the loop make me start to ride from 10knts with my weight and foil set up, I need more session to make a solid opinion on the 6m, but the few session I had so far deliver very good feeling.
What do you think the top end of the 4m M2 would be? I need to get something smaller than my 5m Peak5 and I’m looking at 4m Peak or 3.5m hybrid. My goal is surfing swell.
I swap to 3m Peak when it start to be a over 20knts and gusting 25knts.

I am also curious to know the wind range of the H 3.5m and H2.5m to replace my Peak 3m.
I have a Peak5 2.5m and the Hybrid 2.5m. The H useable range is much higher than the P5. The low range is 5kts higher on the Hybrid but I think the top end is much higher. Took my Hybrid out in 30kts and didn't even close to feel like it was really powered.

I would guess the Peak5 2.5m bottoms end is closer to the Hybrid 3.5m if not even a little better.

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:47 pm

Since Toby took down my post in the video section(thanks man) I figured I'd post it in this thread for those who are debating between the Hybrid and Marabou2.

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby athen » Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:34 pm

Hello everybody,
I would like to ask your advice because I am REALLY undecided whether to buy the new Marabou V2 or the Flysurfer Hybrid.
I am interested in using these mono skin foil kites only with my hydrofoil board (so absolutely not with the twintip nor with a surf board!)

I state that I have already had the old Marabou (first edition), I like them a lot with my twintip, but I felt too many times overpowered when I was on my Hydrofoil board. I have to say that also looping with the Marabou and the foil board has never been optimal for me, always too much power.

Can anyone refute or reassure me on this?

so my dilemma now is: should I buy the new Marabou 2 hoping they are much better than the old ones?
or do I change completely and throw myself into the Flysurfer Hybrid?

thanks a lot!!

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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:09 pm

athen wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:34 pm
Hello everybody,
I would like to ask your advice because I am REALLY undecided whether to buy the new Marabou V2 or the Flysurfer Hybrid.
I am interested in using these mono skin foil kites only with my hydrofoil board (so absolutely not with the twintip nor with a surf board!)

I state that I have already had the old Marabou (first edition), I like them a lot with my twintip, but I felt too many times overpowered when I was on my Hydrofoil board. I have to say that also looping with the Marabou and the foil board has never been optimal for me, always too much power.

Can anyone refute or reassure me on this?

so my dilemma now is: should I buy the new Marabou 2 hoping they are much better than the old ones?
or do I change completely and throw myself into the Flysurfer Hybrid?

thanks a lot!!
The choice between the Hybrid and Marabou2 comes down to your style. Do you want something that's more dynamic, lively, and more playful? Then the Marabou2 is for you. Are you looking for more of a "Park and ride" type of kite? Something that lets you concentrate more on your boarding? Then it's the Hybrid.

The Marabou2 is much more Peak like if you've ridden them. On my 8m I've ridden on my custom Groove 90cm wave board with the 633 from 8 to 22kte fairly comfortably. The bar pressure and power is more progressive and the kite produces much more power per size. On the upper part of its wind range, the loop becomes too powerful while on hydrofoil.

The Hybrid is significantly different. Its shape and much lower aspect ratio makes it produce much less power per size. With the same equipment I would say the bottom end of the wind range on the 7.5m is at least 5kts less. I haven't taken it out in the same high winds but it's a good guess to say it has a higher top end and is easier to handle in those high winds. For reference the Hybrid 7.5 produces less power than my Peak5 6m. Bar pressure is higher and you usually only use the last couple inches of bar travel to make the kite do anything. The kite doesn't backstall and you really have to force it to loop. It takes much longer to inflate on launch but I think it may deflate faster for packdown slightly.

The Hybrid also flutters A LOT while the Marabou barely does if at all. The hybrid slack line drifts a little better than the marabou2 mostly because of its compact shape while the Marabou2 will have a tendency to fold in on itself slightly on one side but it's never been an issue. For water relaunch it's kinda hard to compare. The compact rounded shape of the Hybrid means one line relaunch is better but does to its large resistance to back stalling, it doesn't reverse launch very well unlike the Marabou2 which does very easily. The bridle on the Marabou2 looks better build but does not have adjustment like the hybrid does. Lastly the Hybrid has Velcro butthole compared to the zip on Marabou2.
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Re: Hybrid vs Marabou2

Postby athen » Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:45 pm

precious answer! thanks a lot a lot!
Adventure Logs wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:09 pm
athen wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:34 pm
Hello everybody,
I would like to ask your advice because I am REALLY undecided whether to buy the new Marabou V2 or the Flysurfer Hybrid.
I am interested in using these mono skin foil kites only with my hydrofoil board (so absolutely not with the twintip nor with a surf board!)

I state that I have already had the old Marabou (first edition), I like them a lot with my twintip, but I felt too many times overpowered when I was on my Hydrofoil board. I have to say that also looping with the Marabou and the foil board has never been optimal for me, always too much power.

Can anyone refute or reassure me on this?

so my dilemma now is: should I buy the new Marabou 2 hoping they are much better than the old ones?
or do I change completely and throw myself into the Flysurfer Hybrid?

thanks a lot!!
The choice between the Hybrid and Marabou2 comes down to your style. Do you want something that's more dynamic, lively, and more playful? Then the Marabou2 is for you. Are you looking for more of a "Park and ride" type of kite? Something that lets you concentrate more on your boarding? Then it's the Hybrid.

The Marabou2 is much more Peak like if you've ridden them. On my 8m I've ridden on my custom Groove 90cm wave board with the 633 from 8 to 22kte fairly comfortably. The bar pressure and power is more progressive and the kite produces much more power per size. On the upper part of its wind range, the loop becomes too powerful while on hydrofoil.

The Hybrid is significantly different. Its shape and much lower aspect ratio makes it produce much less power per size. With the same equipment I would say the bottom end of the wind range on the 7.5m is at least 5kts less. I haven't taken it out in the same high winds but it's a good guess to say it has a higher top end and is easier to handle in those high winds. For reference the Hybrid 7.5 produces less power than my Peak5 6m. Bar pressure is higher and you usually only use the last couple inches of bar travel to make the kite do anything. The kite doesn't backstall and you really have to force it to loop. It takes much longer to inflate on launch but I think it may deflate faster for packdown slightly.

The Hybrid also flutters A LOT while the Marabou barely does if at all. The hybrid slack line drifts a little better than the marabou2 mostly because of its compact shape while the Marabou2 will have a tendency to fold in on itself slightly on one side but it's never been an issue. For water relaunch it's kinda hard to compare. The compact rounded shape of the Hybrid means one line relaunch is better but does to its large resistance to back stalling, it doesn't reverse launch very well unlike the Marabou2 which does very easily. The bridle on the Marabou2 looks better build but does not have adjustment like the hybrid does. Lastly the Hybrid has Velcro butthole compared to the zip on Marabou2.
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