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line tangle even if bar left on?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:24 pm

Nice "Bar magic", I like it :thumb:

But cant see how it can work with LEI kites?

As you never have your bar downwind from your kite like shown in the video (I dont know any who does it like that, except for noobs learning this from ancient bad kiteschools)

When you have landed your kite it is cross to the wind, meaning very difficult to see a "free" rearline?

Or?

My other question is:

What do you mean "walk out the lines from bar to the kite"??? (as the wrong way, I know)

How would this even be possible when your lines are always attached?

I have to unwind the lines from my bar first, walking AWAY from the kite, LEI or foil kite (if attached as this thread is about)
Cant see how you can avoid this???
Might be a stupid question and I am an (but not grumpy) old man - but I cant see how this would ever be possible?

And if we are talking about putting kite and bar and lines out FIRST, and then "walking the lines out", it makes more sense of course, yes.
But then, if a foil kite, you can just tighten the lines when standing with the bar, maybe spin it, and maybe untangle bar inside the lines?
Maybe using the "Bar magic" trick yes, but you have to be very unlucky if tangled that much.

I see no reason to walk the lines out not towards nor away from the kite?
The whole idea keeping the lines on, is you can rig and untangle in a yiffy, without ever having to run the lines out?

I dont understand what you guys are talking about, but maybe I havent understood the answers :roll:

8) Peter

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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby edt » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:50 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:24 pm


What do you mean "walk out the lines from bar to the kite"??? (as the wrong way, I know)

How would this even be possible when your lines are always attached?
The original poster has been doing this: unwrap the control bar while moving away from the kite. After he has done that he then walks the lines from the control bar back to the kite. I usually find it a bit simpler to unwrap the lines then after they are unwrapped, walk all the way back to the kite and walk the lines out. If I walk out the lines while I am unwrapping the control bar it seems to take longer but maybe that's just me. Somehow it's much faster for me to walk out the lines after they have been unwrapped instead of walking them out while unwrapping.

Go re-read the original post you'll get it. Anyone who has been kiting foil kites for a while already has a system to deal with line inversions, and though they differ in the details in general they all have the same idea: you flip the control bar around to fix line inversions.

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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:24 pm

Yes I have read it, but he walk the lines out from bar to kite after having inwinded the lines from the bar, but why ever walk the lines out?

Just unwind the lines from the bar while walking away from the kite.
Now spin the bar to find one free rearline, and untangle bar like shown if still a twist.

No need to walk the lines out in either direction :thumb:

Of course, if lines are an utterly mess, you might need to walk them out from kite to bar, but if too messy it might not work well.

If this happens often you would be better off attaching the lines each time IMO.

I might be missing something here?

8) Peter

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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:10 pm

neilhapgood wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:52 pm
Hi all, I have a 12m soul that I leave the bar on, any idea why sometimes I still have to disconnect and re-attach the lines to get them right? Sometimes they are fine but sometimes as I walk up from the bar by the time I get to the kite I have to detach the steering line as its got a few twists around the centre line?
After the session , I leave the bar far away from the foil kite ; with a lot of slack, all riddles outsize the kite, not inside as "usual" ; then I fold the kite in two (bridal not still inside but outside°, roll it almost completely , but leave one meter unrolled, put all briddles up to the pulleys , in straight line , quite tensioned on the extrados fabric just in front of the roll, then finish rolling by entrapping the bridles; this way all bridles are proper and not tangled and above all, the bar being far from the kite there is almost no chance it tangles in the lines ; then I put the folded kite in the bag , then wrap the bar and insert it in the outer side of the bag ;

Same for preparing session : keep kite in the bag, unwrapped the bar , then unroll the kite (still fold in 2). then I tension the briddle bundle out of the kite they are clear at this stage already, then unfold the 2 half folded parts to lay it fully on the extrados. I have no "inversion" any more in my lines and moreover briddles are very rarely tangled.

PS: I do the same for LEI's
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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby edt » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:25 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:24 pm


Now spin the bar to find one free rearline, and untangle bar like shown if still a twist.
The original poster didn't know you could do this don't laugh sometimes you just don't think of how to do very simple things

I'm sure you can think of things in your own life like this

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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby JakeFarley » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:09 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:10 pm
neilhapgood wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:52 pm
Hi all, I have a 12m soul that I leave the bar on, any idea why sometimes I still have to disconnect and re-attach the lines to get them right? Sometimes they are fine but sometimes as I walk up from the bar by the time I get to the kite I have to detach the steering line as its got a few twists around the centre line?
After the session , I leave the bar far away from the foil kite ; with a lot of slack, all riddles outsize the kite, not inside as "usual" ; then I fold the kite in two (bridal not still inside but outside°, roll it almost completely , but leave one meter unrolled, put all briddles up to the pulleys , in straight line , quite tensioned on the extrados fabric just in front of the roll, then finish rolling by entrapping the bridles; this way all bridles are proper and not tangled and above all, the bar being far from the kite there is almost no chance it tangles in the lines ; then I put the folded kite in the bag , then wrap the bar and insert it in the outer side of the bag ;

Same for preparing session : keep kite in the bag, unwrapped the bar , then unroll the kite (still fold in 2). then I tension the briddle bundle out of the kite they are clear at this stage already, then unfold the 2 half folded parts to lay it fully on the extrados. I have no "inversion" any more in my lines and moreover briddles are very rarely tangled.

PS: I do the same for LEI's
I'll have to try this method. :thumb: It seems to be better than putting the bridle on top of the kite, then folding in half to roll it up. In strong winds when folding the kite the bridle lines tend to fall out of the kite and you have to stuff them back in especially if the kite is not completely deflated. A friend of mine puts foam pipe insulation, around 3 feet long, on the bridle/mixer then rolls it up from the wing tips to the middle. I may try that as well.

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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:12 pm

I didnt know either, about the "bar magic" till recently.

But still walk(ed) the bar (lines) out from the kite, spun the bar and untangled what was left.

A good thread, as sometimes we forget the simplest things are not always simple if you dont know, true :naughty:

I still dont understand how you do this with a LEI toby, which is landed (and most often also rigged) side to the wind?

8) Peter

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Re: line tangle even if bar left on?

Postby phildaintree » Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:03 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:10 pm
After the session , I leave the bar far away from the foil kite ; with a lot of slack, all riddles outsize the kite, not inside as "usual" ; then I fold the kite in two (bridal not still inside but outside°, roll it almost completely , but leave one meter unrolled, put all briddles up to the pulleys , in straight line , quite tensioned on the extrados fabric just in front of the roll, then finish rolling by entrapping the bridles; this way all bridles are proper and not tangled and above all, the bar being far from the kite there is almost no chance it tangles in the lines ; then I put the folded kite in the bag , then wrap the bar and insert it in the outer side of the bag ;

Same for preparing session : keep kite in the bag, unwrapped the bar , then unroll the kite (still fold in 2). then I tension the briddle bundle out of the kite they are clear at this stage already, then unfold the 2 half folded parts to lay it fully on the extrados. I have no "inversion" any more in my lines and moreover briddles are very rarely tangled.
This has been a game changer for me and saved me hours of untangling!! Thanks Regis


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