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Repairing Peak bridle

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OzBungy
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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby OzBungy » Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:33 am

The line is Liros PPSL 125 https://www.liros.com/catalog/en/ppsls-125-p3130/

Sheathed line is a bit of a pain because it needs to be sewn very accurately and using the correct thread. By the time you buy all the bits and pieces and learn how to do it you might as well have bought the spare part line.

A much simpler method is to buy the nearest size Dyneema you can get. 1.1mm looks pretty close. Splice up a new line and fit it.

Brummel splices would be ok and you don't really need to sew them. You might have to trial and error to get the length of the finished line perfect.

Simple eye splices are much easier to adjust and get a perfect length but you have to sew them. A few hand stitches with polyester thread is adequate. The stitching doesn't hold any load it just stops the loop from slipping when it's not loaded.

Make the bury fairly long because that is what gives the splice its strength. If you make the spliced line a little shorter it's easy to pull the loop out until the finished line is very precise.

Use a darning needle for the splicing. The rounded end of the needle is much easier to get inside thin Dyneema. Bent guitar strings tend to damage the threads. Any hand sewing needle is fine for the lock stitches.
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Flyboy (Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:22 pm)
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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Flyboy » Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:22 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:33 am
The line is Liros PPSL 125 https://www.liros.com/catalog/en/ppsls-125-p3130/

Sheathed line is a bit of a pain because it needs to be sewn very accurately and using the correct thread. By the time you buy all the bits and pieces and learn how to do it you might as well have bought the spare part line.

A much simpler method is to buy the nearest size Dyneema you can get. 1.1mm looks pretty close. Splice up a new line and fit it.

Brummel splices would be ok and you don't really need to sew them. You might have to trial and error to get the length of the finished line perfect.

Simple eye splices are much easier to adjust and get a perfect length but you have to sew them. A few hand stitches with polyester thread is adequate. The stitching doesn't hold any load it just stops the loop from slipping when it's not loaded.

Make the bury fairly long because that is what gives the splice its strength. If you make the spliced line a little shorter it's easy to pull the loop out until the finished line is very precise.

Use a darning needle for the splicing. The rounded end of the needle is much easier to get inside thin Dyneema. Bent guitar strings tend to damage the threads. Any hand sewing needle is fine for the lock stitches.
I wrote to the online Flysurfer shop asking about when I could get a replacement line ... after 5 days I have received no reply. I looped and tied a section of the B-safe line to use - as of now I haven't had the opportunity to try it out. The loading on this line wouldn't be that high, I would guess, I am thinking any reasonable line should do the job. The line leads to two very lightweight bridle lines that attach to the kite itself - the B safe line is surely much stronger than those bridle lines?

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby OzBungy » Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:25 am

The b-safe line is Liros DC100.

https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... LP-4-1.pdf

Technical details of DC100 are in this document. Search for DC000-0100 It's a little bit less strong than PPSL 125. In short, the b-safe line is probably fine.

https://www.liros.com/userdata/files/LI ... ow_res.pdf

Basically it's SK75 Dyneema. You can pretty much use any SK75, which is commonly available, or go to SK99 which is stronger and less stretchy but harder to find and more expensive.
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Flyboy (Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 am)
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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Flyboy » Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:01 am

OzBungy wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:25 am
The b-safe line is Liros DC100.

https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... LP-4-1.pdf

Technical details of DC100 are in this document. Search for DC000-0100 It's a little bit less strong than PPSL 125. In short, the b-safe line is probably fine.

https://www.liros.com/userdata/files/LI ... ow_res.pdf

Basically it's SK75 Dyneema. You can pretty much use any SK75, which is commonly available, or go to SK99 which is stronger and less stretchy but harder to find and more expensive.
Thanks for this!

It's pretty complicated - I need to look at the kite in the light of day and compare to the Flysurfer bridle schematic and the Liros info. It seems like the end bridle lines that actually attach to the kite are DC60, but they seem massively less thick than the B-Safe line which is supposedly DC100. They are also described as "grey", but they are actually white. I'm not clear if the PPSL is the sleeved line ... or just the line inside the sleeving?

The problem with the line is that the sleeving has worn off in in this one spot - I'm not sure why this happened. Perhaps rubbing against another line at some point, but I don't remember anything like that happening in my last session using it, and I'm sure I would have noticed it previously if it happened in an earlier session.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Herman » Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:23 am

I have seen sleeving on bridle line break for “no apparent reason!”. Could be worn by a tangle rubbing etc but I was also wondering if occasionally you could get a sleeve that shrinks faster than the core to the extent where it takes all the load and can actually fail just under load. Not seen any test data that suggests that is possible, would need a non stretchy sleeve for this to happen I guess.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Smeagle » Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:27 am

If you lookup Liros PPSL you can see it is sleeved. (PolyPropylenSLeeved I think).

Yeah, the sleeving will break, the core will still hold, that's how these lines breaks all the time. Happens after knots/tangles, crossed lines or after tree landings, etc...

The Sleeve is not "holding" at all - its "stretchy", so it can't shrink. It has parallel fibers inside, these hold the force and don't shrink like woven fibers do. That's why sleeved lines do not shrink. If you cut the fibers, the sleeve will get much longer.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Herman » Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:08 am

PPSL 120 has a 16plait polyester cover. Although some rope specification will give a loading ratio taken by the core and outer from a cursory read the loading ratio between core and sleeve is not specified on the website. Nevertheless I would not expect the load on the sleeve to be zero. Also I don’t know that parallel fibres have no shrinkage, personally I suspect there is shrinkage at a molecular level in structures based on long chain carbon molecules but that’s getting way too sciencey. However, the outer is subject to more shrinkage mechanisms than the parallel core, uv, dirt, longer fibre per line length…………..

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Smeagle » Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:44 am

Herman wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:08 am
Also I don’t know that parallel fibres have no shrinkage, personally I suspect there is shrinkage at a molecular level in structures based on long chain carbon molecules but that’s getting way too sciencey.
My understanding is, shrinking comes from weave/braid becoming filled with dirt and getting more loose. I don't think a straight fiber can shrink!?

- Oliver

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Herman » Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:20 pm

You may be correct that the parallel fibres do not have significant shrinkage, which would of course tend to load the outer if that shrinks making the possible failure mechanism suggested.

There are plastic molecules that do shrink and so as it is a rainy day I will do the experiment that I have had in mind but not got round to in the last 2 decades. I will heat soak a piece of dyneema @ 120°C for a time to see if it shrinks. I will let you know what I find.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Herman » Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:23 pm

^^Not very interestingly, the experiment was a busted flush. The line I used was a piece of 0.68mm 150lb 16 braid. I wrapped it in foil and put it in a domestic oven at 120°C for 30 min. (Dyneema melting point 140°C?). It didn’t just shrink, it shrunk to oblivion. I doubt this line was dyneema. Obviously it would not be appropriate to extrapolate these results to a high quality line, but the molecules in this cheap fishing line have loads of shrinkage potential! Not worth while to do the experimentation required to give decent data in more realistic temperatures and timescales imho.


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