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Repairing Peak bridle

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Flyboy
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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Flyboy » Wed Jul 26, 2023 4:34 pm

All very interesting.

How much does the sleeving contribute to the strength of the PPSL line? What is the reason to use sleeved line where it is used? I assume Flysufer has a rational for the lines they use - probably a combination of strength/weight/cost/wear resistance. The Peaks have (thicker) braided line at the business end of the mixer. I actually use long sleeved pigtails to attach to the rear flying lines in order to achieve the appropriate line lengths.

The "parallel" fibres inside the sleeved line are very different from the braided DC line - they don't appear very strong, but I am used to see the braided line of kite lines.

The DC100 of the B-safe line seems a lot thicker than the DC60 line used for the bridle ends. I've just tied off the line to create loops - this might create a weak point in the line strength.

In any case, I will try the kite. Should the DC100 line fail out shouldn't be catastrophic. I assume the trailing edge of the kite will noticeably flap around a bit and I will be able to head in to shore. :-?

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Smeagle » Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:00 pm

Herman wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:20 pm
You may be correct that the parallel fibres do not have significant shrinkage, which would of course tend to load the outer if that shrinks making the possible failure mechanism suggested.
I have often worked with those line... The outer weave does not take significant load. If you cut the line and pull on outside you can see the outer part can get longer than inner part. But it's possible that it's not the same for all lines? Not sure. I used PPSL and DSL from LIROS.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Herman » Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:25 pm

^^Same as my expectations for bridle line. I had an Access with a broken cover on a Z line. I flew it for ages like that. Maybe from a design point of view you might even disregard the strength of the cover for this type of line. However as you say not same for all lines as some take a significant proportion of load on the outer, not sure if this would only apply to double braids.

If I wanted to keep flying but was worried about the consequences of a breakage you could leave the line with broken cover as is and slave in an appropriate piece of 16plait dyneema fishing line, doubling up the line. I would probably leave one end as a running splice to be able to adjust the load taken and for any shrinkage. I have done this for bridle elements I wanted to try at a shorter length without issue. This type of line is floppy and so more prone to rucking into a tangle but I find it ok for judicious use.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Smeagle » Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:38 am

I had broken sleeves several times. I used them again for 1..3 session in this state (while waiting for new line or because there was good wind and no time to repair) and they held up fine. I knew, even when the line snapped it would not be a very big problem, most foil kites can take loosing a single bridle line. But sure, repair it as soon as possible.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby azoele » Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:11 am

Not the same product, but I had asked Liros about sleeve’s contribution to the total strength, and was explained “there is some contribution”. :o
(actually they were very kind via email :thumb: )

In my case it was Magic Pro, a sleeved SK78 line made for gripping in cleats. What looked like the same product but sleeveless was rated about 15/20% less braking load, if I remember correctly.
I was explained that the core holds the majority of the load.

I would fix it with a sleeveless slightly higher load bearing rope to feel on the safe side and call it a day.

The suggestion of splicing it, with *long* buries (I’d go 60x minimum, up to 100x the diameter for the length) is very sound to me. If you brummel lock it will be a pain to make it the correct length.
Just bury it, set the length, then a few hand sewn stitches just to avoid it slipping without tension (with tension it will never slip).

Good luck!

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Flyboy » Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:47 am

Here's an update. Flysurfer got back to me this morning (German time). Apparently the line is available for order.

As I said, I took the B-safe line made a loop at each end & tied a single knot to secure them. No stitching, no burying. I applied some epoxy to the knots to ensure they would not slip. Had a 3 hour session today on the kite It held up perfectly - it's hard to imagine that it wouldn't when you look at the bridle & the various lines leading to the kite.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Smeagle » Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:20 am

Flyboy wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:47 am
I applied some epoxy to the knots to ensure they would not slip.
Very bad idea. The fibers will soak some epoxy and break at the brittle edge quickly.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby khaakon » Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:16 pm

Knots on Dyneema lines reduce breaking strength to ... approx 50%. Can be more, can be even less - depending on braid/material(SK 7x 9x), and how (well) the knot is made of course. Splicing can retain 80 to 90+ % strength and is much better.
Heat can make issues with Dyneema, as forces means heat. And there's forces in tangles, and there's tangles in FS Peaks !

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Flyboy » Sat Jul 29, 2023 3:23 am

Smeagle wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:20 am
Flyboy wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:47 am
I applied some epoxy to the knots to ensure they would not slip.
Very bad idea. The fibers will soak some epoxy and break at the brittle edge quickly.
We'll see. I'm doubtful it will break, but no big deal if it does - the two bridle points will flap a bit and I'll come in. Probably unnecessary to secure the knot anyway. I just realized looking through my Flysurfer goodie bags that the kites come with some (looped) DC60 lines as well as the heavier line. It would probably be a good idea to have some extra PPSL line on hand that could be cut & sleeved to the appropriate length if a line breaks, rather than ordering specific sleeved lines.

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Re: Repairing Peak bridle

Postby Herman » Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:06 am

I think Smeagle has a point but it depends on your definition of quickly. Creating what I call a hinge point in a line will reduce reduce the life of the line, for example heat shrink on sleeved ends is considered a bad idea, at least by some. Quicker for sure……………Quickly meh, maybe knot!


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