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Peak 4 - 4m collapse

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patrelsa
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Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby patrelsa » Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:39 am

This has maybe been talked about before,but my searching didn't find an answer.I have a 4 m peak 4 that slightly sheeted out will totally collapse in 20 knots of wind.Anyone have an idea what's going on or how to fix it.I run this bar no problem on all other peak 4s with no problem

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Re: Peak 4 -4m collapse

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:54 am

patrelsa wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:39 am
This has maybe been talked about before,but my searching didn't find an answer.I have a 4 m peak 4 that slightly sheeted out will totally collapse in 20 knots of wind.Anyone have an idea what's going on or how to fix it.I run this bar no problem on all other peak 4s with no problem
Check for knots/shrinkage in the bridle, especially on the A level. I've had this happen before in the higher side of the wind range and it was a knot if I remember correctly.

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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby mashimisha2 » Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:53 am

You may have to tune it up.

I get the best performance using the following settings:
A = Z
B = +1.5cm
C = +1.0cm
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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby Smeagle » Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:28 am

mashimisha2 wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:53 am
You may have to tune it up.
I 2nd that. And make the backlines shorter, after that mod you will be able to power up a lot more than before.

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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby lederhosen » Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:23 am

+1 for checking tuning. Make all levels same length again first and fly it to see if the problem is gone. A collapse when sheeting out sounds like the leading edge folds down. In that case it might be better to shorten B and C a bit instead of making it longer.

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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby Fatso » Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:31 am

mashimisha2 wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:53 am
You may have to tune it up.

I get the best performance using the following settings:
A = Z
B = +1.5cm
C = +1.0cm
Do you have a diagram... To show what you mean? I have a Peak4 in 4m and would like to verify/tune the bridle...

Thanks

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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby Smeagle » Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:41 am

lederhosen wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:23 am
+1 for checking tuning. Make all levels same length again first and fly it to see if the problem is gone. A collapse when sheeting out sounds like the leading edge folds down. In that case it might be better to shorten B and C a bit instead of making it longer.
Peak flys on A alone. But looses shape and power and flaps like crazy. No front stall. After making B C longer you can shorten back lines (a lot!) and have higher usable depower range. Much later back stall and still no front stall.

- Oliver
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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby Herman » Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:13 am

If the collapse is caused by LE luffing into a front stall it surprised me that some peeps are suggesting the addition of more camber to the profile by lengthening B and C as this, if the Peak flys like many other foils, makes the LE more likely to tuck into a front stall. Traditionally my understanding was that it is better to reduce camber to have a more stable kite, but of course a reduced camber will allow it to fly further forward in the window. ( Conversely, increase camber for more grunt.)

Most kites can be flown on the A but Peaks really rattle if you do that as there is no canopy pressure to keep shape; they really need bridle tension to function as a kite. However, in my limited experience with Peaks one of the beauties is that, even on a hot launch, you can just let go of the bar and the kite will fly up on the A and the rest of the canopy rattles up so much drag that it does not overfly and front stall.

+1 for Lederhosen!

PS Would be very interested to know if a knot is found in the bridle, I would suspect in the A as it collapses after sheeting out! Staking the bar and standing kite up as in a hot launch is a good way of making the initial bridle examination imho!
Last edited by Herman on Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby mashimisha2 » Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:07 am

Fatso wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:31 am
mashimisha2 wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:53 am
You may have to tune it up.

I get the best performance using the following settings:
A = Z
B = +1.5cm
C = +1.0cm
Do you have a diagram... To show what you mean? I have a Peak4 in 4m and would like to verify/tune the bridle...

Thanks
1. Make A and Z the same length by adjusting the steering lines at the bar.
2. Compare A vs. C . . . and then adjust C to make it the same length as A.
3. Compare A vs. B . . . and then adjust B to make it the same length as A.
4. Compare A vs. C again . . . and make adjustments
5. Compare A vs. B again . . . and make adjustments

THEN test the kite.
If you are happy . . . go kiting.

If you want a bit more juice, then readjust B and C to make them a bit longer than A (more curve in the canopy).
Note that when you adjust C, it also affects B.

Like the other guys said, a bit of back stall is a good thing. It provides control over how deep in the wind window you want the kite to fly.
This can be achieved simply by shortening the steering lines a bit.
Use the A lines as a reference for all adjustments of B and C.

This can be a finicky process. Take your time and get it right.

Good luck!
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Re: Peak 4 - 4m collapse

Postby Smeagle » Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:15 am

Herman wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:13 am
If the collapse is caused by LE luffing into a front stall it surprised me that some peeps are suggesting the addition of more camber to the profile by lengthening B and C as this, if the Peak flys like many other foils, makes the LE more likely to tuck into a front stall.

[...]

Most kites can be flown on the A but Peaks really rattle if you do that as there is no canopy pressure to keep shape; they really need bridle tension to function as a kite.
Yes, it flaps like crazy and cannot be really used, but Peak will never front stall. A is connected in a way the front part is stable. Problem with Peak is, the back lines are very long, so it will be at a point were kite does not work early I guess, that's what is meant by "collapse", right? And if you make back lines shorter it will back stall very early. So solution is make camber deeper (B+3 C+2 is what I used on small peak, but experiment with it!) and back lines shorter. It gives a much bigger usable range and a lot of more power to get going.


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