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Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

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ieism
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Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby ieism » Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:10 am

Hi,

I've searched here but have not found much info. Has anyone flown a Flare Moustache for soaring and also has experience with foil kites? I know they are completely different things, but to me the Moustache feels more like a foilkite than a paraglider (I have flown paragliders as well). Risers on a kite wing? Is that something crazy people do?

I just started flying, and off course you get hooked quite easlily on this. But I also have a bit of snowkite experience, and with a foilkite you can also do some flying. I don't think I'm ready to ditch it all and spend 4K on a Flare if I can do short little flights on ski's or even dune soaring with a foilkite. Especially as it basically requires the same wind conditions and I don't want to stop kite foiling yet.

Not that keen on high flying or crazy stuff, just short low flights would scratch my itch.

I've taken a course flying the Moutache and also theory on Dune soaring.
Screenshot 2023-10-06 at 10.09.17.JPG

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby evan » Fri Oct 06, 2023 11:58 am

I am Flying in the south: Brouwersdam-Zoutelande and have tested a lot of gliders/miniwings with custom kite risers and tested races kites also (R1v2, Vmg2, PLKB Aero v2) And from all the wings we think the R1v4 has the best performance and handling. Moustache doesn't even come close to the wind range and glide you with an R1 which give you al lot more freedom in changing conditions as you can get more height on small dunes, gaps, low wind or cross conditions.

Catch is that the conversion is irreversible as you have to cut the valves open, otherwise it's impossible to land in strong winds alone when the air stays inside. You also a custom riser set tuned for the kite and adjust the entire bridle as the risers are only 50cm apart instead of 2-3m when flying on a bar and you need to reinforce some bridle attachment points.
I only did (almost) brand new R1's as they are a bit more fragile over a Moustache so you can't get as many hours out of them.
EN-D or even CCC gliders are also a lot of fun to fly with kite risers in low winds, don't bother with an EN-A wing as they are too draggy, so you can't get any height and as soon as the wind increases you are already overpowered. Too bad all the miniwings are low performance wings, the only one that comes close to the moustache is the Puffin with kite risers.
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joriws
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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby joriws » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:45 pm

Here is a video from friend who uses kites and moustache. There are many videos of moustache used as parakite etc so check all videos on his yt-page. Intro texts are in Finnish but videos are not spoken.



But to answer, sure you can fly with foilkite but the bar system is not that safe to steer.

Here is another video where Flysurfer Speed3 21m is converted to a parakite with glider harness and risers.

Last edited by joriws on Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby evan » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:06 pm

Me playing with the 13m in 20-30kn:


And showing the glide of the 13m, bigger sizes glide even better:

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby Avo » Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:13 am

Have a look on Youtube for the 15-year old vids from "flyingcloclo".
He was doing fantastic stuff back then with his FS Speed kites.
I think he got more or less involved in the idea of the Moustache then.

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby joriws » Sat Oct 07, 2023 2:27 pm

Avo wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:13 am
Have a look on Youtube for the 15-year old vids from "flyingcloclo".
He was doing fantastic stuff back then with his FS Speed kites.
I think he got more or less involved in the idea of the Moustache then.
joriws wrote: Here is another video where Flysurfer Speed3 21m is converted to a parakite with glider harness and risers.
Indeed in my video the Speed3 paragliding harness and risers were manufactured and sold by Flyingcloclo.

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby funalex » Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:31 pm

evan wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:06 pm
Me playing with the 13m in 20-30kn:
Great !! :o

What sort of speed system did you use during this video footage ?

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby evan » Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:50 am

Made my own, took a few times to get all details right. Ended up with the same pulley setup as the moustache eventually. Also needs a bit of testing what height you want the stall point to be for your arm length+harness.

Put about 100 pieces of line into the bridle to get the same canopy arc, still less work than making a complete new bridle set. Tip lines need to be about 1m longer and then progressively shorter all to 0m the closer you get to the center of the kite.
Otherwise you get a very inefficient upside down V-shape like they did with a sonic4 here:
Attachments
sonic 4 V shape.png
sonic 4 V shape.png (312.26 KiB) Viewed 1859 times

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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby funalex » Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:32 pm

Someone asked me to do a "moustache"-like bridle (for his pansh Kestrel 18m).
Fortunately, I have 3d plans :thumb: , airfoil and overall shape are compatible for me... It should works
Sans titre 2.jpg
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Re: Flare Moustache vs. foil kite

Postby kitexpert » Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:36 pm

Image

Sonic4 parakite bridle. A line row only because others are a bit different and should be designed separately. Interestingly it is quite similar to Kestrel bridle but there is more cells in Sonic
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