What is the lowest wind you can kite in?

[Regis-de-giens]

For people who have budget issues but still want to ride in very low wind: i see two second hand alternatives below 400 euros approx :
-Speed 2 15m or 19m Silver Arrow (27gr but old kite, with porous cloth):
- pansh Aurora V2 UL in 15 or 19m . 32gr i think . Or A15 UL.
- flysurfer speed4 lotus 18m. 32 cr lotus cloth.

Not as efficient as Pulsion but good toys. Here my ex-speed2 SA before the pulsion 4 years ago, about 300 euro; i was a beginner on HF at that time. 7 knots in gusts... "almost no depower" on this kite but so efficient...

[plummet]

How low can I go? 6 knots on the water I reckon with my current kit. On land with the buggy on a hard beach with onshore wind if I can get the kite in the air then I can kitebuggy. It doesnt even need to be stay at in the air. If I can get one down loop then I'm off with apparent wind. So 3-4 knots, maybe less.

Now can I be bothered with 3-4 knot kitebuggy or 6 knot foil? hell no. Its batshit boring. I have more fun things to do sub 10 knots.

Ok some times I do hunt ultra light wind. More for the can I do it experience rather than the joy of it. There is a certain zen to light wind hydrofoiling that I enjoy. However I like the kite to part and not fall out of the sky if I fall off. Otherwise I dont enjoy it.

[kitexpert]

Not as efficient as Pulsion but good toys.

I am 99% sure every Speed kite generation easily beats Pulsion if efficiency is defined as it usually is: low end, upwind performance, boosting. Indeed very hard to understand how kite with much higher AR, more cells and less bridle drag could be less efficient.

Pulsion kite may hang better in the air in static flight but that is hardly enough for better efficiency. For me it is quite useless property because I practically never drop kite and if I do wind is too low for kiting anyway.

Comparisons should be done on ice or hard snow, then hf quality and user skills and weight don't mess the results. I guarantee Pulsion kite loses then, and it will not be even a close race. But there is nothing special there, most kites lose in efficiency against any Speed. Practically all LEI kites lose against it too.

That doesn't mean Speeds are better kites or nicer to use. Not at all, I don't like them that much mainly because they are so slow and have so soft feel. But they are still very efficient kites (if in good shape and tune).

[Regis-de-giens]

I was just talking about absolute low end riding vs "old FS speeds" in the wind conditions when kite hardly flies in the air.
Not perfomance in the meaning of speed/upwind which is not the topic of this thread.

About fun in very light wind : i personally like it, but if the material is adapted (agile and forgiving for big lulls for both kite and foil wing). I see it as a different sport as "normal" kiteboarding, but is is personal taste indeed.i do not like waiting on the beach and have too much concrete around me for fun VTT .

[kitexpert]

I was just talking about absolute low end riding vs "old FS speeds" in the wind conditions when kite hardly flies in the air.
Not perfomance in the meaning of speed/upwind which is not the topic of this thread.

About fun in very light wind : i personally like it, but if the material is adapted (agile and forgiving for big lulls for both kite and foil wing). I see it as a different sport as "normal" kiteboarding, but is is personal taste indeed.i do not like waiting on the beach and have too much concrete around me for fun VTT .

Ok, but this kind of approach is quite irrelevant to most kiters and it also gets much too much visibility here. Your light wind skills and capabilities are respectable but I must say it doesn't give that much for "normal" kiters or it may be even misleading.

Riding speed, upwind performance and also boosting are essential properties in light wind. If you can't get some speed, go (efficiently) upwind and do some jumps low wind kiting is lame or even nuisance, not much fun. So these properties are very much on topic for this thread, more than giving some values of wind speed which is more or less guesswork.

[longwhitecloud]

It is true. Every extra knot of low end under 10-12kts adds probably $1000 to your quiver when moving into foils and foil kites. But some places you need this if you want to get out often. If you can’t afford it then just go biking or something. Stick to 10kts+, leave under ten knots to the rich old guys. We will Catch up eventually . Average age in my local spots is 50+. Im always the youngest by far and I’m in my 30s . Hope gear doesn’t get much more expensive.

in any gear-based sport, pushing the limits will cost ya.. since you mentioned biking, a friend of mine spent $10k on a triathlon bike and he is neither rich nor top triathlon champ.. just likes to perfect a bit in his gig.. So yes, you can kitesurf with a boogie board and ikea bag.. but that may not be as ideal as proper setup.. And you can have plenty of fun boosting race foils/hydrofoils in 10kts, just have to invest in gear and skills..

Racing bikes are the epitome of a mid life crisis industry based on "spend to win". An olympic bike is 100s of thousands of dollars.

Kiteboarding isnt a gear based sport imo and nor did cycling need to be either, certainly not in the disciplines of freestyle, waveriding and even freeriding. It doesnt even need to be gear based for racing, kiteboarding has such a high efficiency even with the most entry level equipment.

As people know here, I am opposed to anything that tries to make kiteboarding into something it doesnt need to be at all, or never was, by continuing to make the sport accessible to all including being competitive on affordable equipment.

Unfortunately a few people and brands had another ideas, and now we are left with mostly over 50s and very few next generation in comparison to 10 years ago. They made their cake and are eating it now. If you don't cater for a next generation you won't have anyone to sell to.

From what I have seen this low wind market will have priced itself out of the market because I have seen an active transfer to wing surfing in light winds from many riders I know/ have seen that were into light wind kite foiling and the lower cost and ability to use equipment they already own has been a huge factor.

I am not even into wingsurfing and I see this.

Light wind kiting has some seriously bad factors - the greatest being dropping your kite and not getting it back up, stuck out to sea - not a problem with a wing.


Anyway, anyone can ride and do what the f#$# they want... but unfortunately some of the "industry" steered a sport where a lot of us didnt want it to go.

light wind riding costs big $

[Regis-de-giens]

Strutless LEI are a very good and cheap compromise for the low budget rider interested in light winds. Then ok, a foilkite is more expensive, but there are suitable second hands alternatives as I quoted it , IMO.
Ps: I do not think that people who are not interested in light winds should argue here. It is out of initial title IMO.

[Faxie]

Thoughts?

[dave1986]

Thoughts?

The only way I can see to make a kite that is better than a modern ultralight foil kite for very low winds is either:
1) Use extremely thin light fabric that is so fragile it is unlikely to withstand crashes or even 1 season of use.
2) Use more expensive lightweight materials like Aluula/ cuben fibre.

I think only option 2 is practically feasible. We have yet to see a foil kite made from high-tech materials like Aluula or cuben fibre. I would be interested to see this!

[Faxie]

Thoughts?

The only way I can see to make a kite that is better than a modern ultralight foil kite for very low winds is either:
1) Use extremely thin light fabric that is so fragile it is unlikely to withstand crashes or even 1 season of use.
2) Use more expensive lightweight materials like Aluula/ cuben fibre.

I think only option 2 is practically feasible. We have yet to see a foil kite made from high-tech materials like Aluula or cuben fibre. I would be interested to see this!

Well, from what I heard it's supposed to be the five strut Aluula looking kite from an earlier movie of him. Do the Ocean Rodeo's Flites Aluula fly in 3 knots? And those are 3 strut...