Kite backstalls in low wind after looping

[hugobd1]

Hello! It happened to me a few times already and it's pretty annoying.

I have a 2017 Slingshot Rally 8m and I realized that when I'm a little under power the kite starts to backstalls after looping it. So instead of getting more power when it crosses the power zone, it simply stops and stars backstalling until I let go of the bar. Weirdly enough if the kite is a 12 and that I pull the bar in it doesn't backstall. I also tried trimming the bar, but it didn't help.

To be noted that the wind was light, but I was still able to jump and ride upwind so it was not that light.

I'm not sure what's causing it to backstall after a loop. Has someone else experienced the same thing ?

Thanks!

[Herman]

I would guess that this is just normal behaviour. Can be exacerbated by backstall trimmed into sheeting range and longer bars. Has to be controlled by bar sheeting and anticipation of the stall imho.

Simplistically, If your bar sheeting range is tuned just out of backstall and you fishpole a 50 cm sheeted in bar one side of your kite has to recover from 25 cm of backstall sheeting. This and gravity stops the kite if you don’t anticipate and ease the sheeting or just don’t use as much sheeting in the first place and keep the loop wider and kite velocity higher.

[jumptheshark]

Agree, likely just the kite. Had a 9m Rally. For certain things it was great. Thought of it as a conditions tamer. Made the really gnarly days that make you a bit nervous a piece of cake. Loads of low end power. Decent jumper once you figure out how to land softly. Stable and steady while still turning fast enough once you got it turning. Not great in light wind tho. Well not entirely true. Great in its lower end to a point. The kite makes a lot of power for its size, but it was definitely rather heavy built, so there comes a point where that weight ruins the party. Used mine quite a few times on snow in typical up and down inland winds and it would drop out of the sky easy enough due to weight. Mostly when turning upward at the edges of the window. Rally really shines in the mid to top end. Can hold them down forever!

[purdyd]

The smaller the kite the more sensitive it is to trim. All kites suffer from this problem when the winds are light, I run into it particularly in foiling,

You have to sheet out as the kite as it gets low in the window. If you can’t do that you have to adjust the trim to depower the kite so you don’t accidentally stall the kite.

[hugobd1]

Thanks a lot for answering, I really appreciate it!

It's true, being 5 struts, the rally is a pretty heavy kite. I never thought a heavy kite would have the drawbacks of back stalling more, but it makes sense.

Simplistically, If your bar sheeting range is tuned just out of backstall and you fishpole a 50 cm sheeted in bar one side of your kite has to recover from 25 cm of backstall sheeting.

I don't understand how having a 50cm bar turned 90 degrees for a loop would exacerbate the back stalling effect.

Also, I recently started to practice the Helli loops, and I feel that when I'm looping too fast the kite stops pulling and doesn't catch me. Could it be related or do you have any tips on that?

[jumptheshark]

Of course!

The tighter the loop the lower the power.

Especially with a kite like the rally.

Tight loops with that kite have no pull. Super easy to build some looping confidence. But let it go wide and it’s a nightmare. Learn to loop the rally, but as soon as you want to loop for real, get another kite.

[Herman]

I don’t understand why you don’t understand and so this is going to be tricky!! I will try to explain my mind set regarding this:

Kite steers by increasing AOA of the side you are pulling. This side slows down and the slack side flys faster hence kite turns.

If you keep increasing the AOA of the pulled side it flys even slower and the kite will start to pivot. Pull hard enough and the pulled side will stall and fly backwards as the slack side flys forward around the stalled side, a true pivot with much less power.

Sheeted in fishpoled bar: 50 cm bar pulled steering line effectively same as rigging a 25cm shorter rear line on that side of the kite. For a 60cm fishpoled the kite would fly like you shortened the steering line by 30cm. Normalish bar set up backstall will start once the back lines have been shortened by 5cm or so in lightish wind.

Of course when riding sheeting is usually all done by feel and progressively sheeting in. But for looping when wave riding, arguably, the feel is better approached from the other direction as it is safer to over commit and progressively sheet out for power.

Personally I think it is quite difficult to practice proper heliloops unless you are jumping high enough to need them because otherwise the kite will not be that powered and you have to be too gentle and finessed to make it effective. Suggest you try lots of faked heliloops to water start to get the feel of best sheeting control as this may help. Trimming before a session to prevent stall may be a stepping stone but it is also advantageous to learn how to combat it with sheeting control imho. Have a look at Steven Akkerdijk Road to kite loops vids they are excellent.

[Matty V]

Ffs, the kite is oversheeted, pull a few inches of depower on and repeat the loop until it stops stalling.

[sonny2727]

Ffs, the kite is oversheeted, pull a few inches of depower on and repeat the loop until it stops stalling.

exactly ..either pull the trim or at the bottom of the loop push the bar out ...

[randykato]

Another thing to consider is what are you doing during the loop? If you're heading downwind (to any degree) it will reduce your apparent wind and increase the tendency of the kite to backstall / fall out of the sky.