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How to Jump bigger - Part I

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edt
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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby edt » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:55 pm

the deeper the kite is in the wind window the more powerful and explosive pop you can get. So for instance, my flysurfer soul just refuses flat out refuses to fly anywhere but the very top of the wind window, and unhooking with that kite is like holding hands with your grandma. It's not explosive. By contrast my fuels sit very very deep in the wind window habitually and when I pop they go super deep and come back and you explode off the water and after that you feel enormous slack. The enduro is in between those two kites and has in between pop. Now my flysurfer has tremendous lift and huge jumps but it's all done with the kite very little with pop or rather the pop is gradual and gentle not explosive.

Obviously there's some sort of physics going on and Evan's explanation makes the most sense so far. I mean I will sometimes do it I see people do this bunny hop before boosting, but as to why it works that has always puzzled me. His explanation of water tension is also very interesting and might be a factor. In any case, once I have a physical explanation it makes it easier for me to do it. I know, I know just do it right? But knowing why it works helps me a lot.

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby knotwindy » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:16 pm

Ok, here’s a guess
Heading off wind just a bit will move give a bit more speed and move the kite slightly back in the window which, together will allow you to maintain line tension while sheeting out a bit. This will allow you to send the kite faster while still having more room to sheet in for lift.
Just a guess, open for other options…

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:28 am

I like Mikes explanation but to send me to sleep I will have a guess at the Physics for the pop ignoring the kite.

The rider and board has kinetic energy (1/2mv2), which he wants to convert to height/potential energy (mgh). To do this he has to carve a ramp in the water that will enable a force to be exerted on the board over the ramps distance, work=force x distance of exertion. This is the force that will accelerate the rider upwards. Obviously, a correctly executed bunny hop and carve will create a bigger ramp enabling a greater force and energy transfer. It also stresses the adds.

PS even if you don’t hop coming off your edge allows you to swing the hips & torso into a more dynamic rail engagement imho!
Last edited by Herman on Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:38 am

SolarSet wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:19 pm
Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:44 am
Miles and miles of flat water don't hurt either.
yeah that was my thought as well, easy to give people tips how to jump high when you ride on silk smooth water.
This tip about releasing edge to speed up and edge again I think it's bollocks (bullshit for US ppl).
See how he can load up and edge with his front leg almost parallel to the water with his backside just skimming the surface? Can't do that in the chop.

Releasing the edge then reloading -- what's bollocks about it? Gives a very aggressive yank off the water and some decent height. Great fun.

Impossible in chop though...

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:42 am

FLandOBX wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:04 pm
And it's even easier to sit in front of a keyboard and critique. Eagerly awaiting big air videos from you guys...... :thumb:
I'm not criticising the video, I'm lamenting our shit conditions. On the rate days we get 20 knots or more, we also get annoying chop without even the flat zones that let you get your pop in properly...
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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:31 am

jedi1 wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:37 pm
It'd be great to hear a couple of other opinions on what is the exact reason to "do the hop".
So Anton's learning to fly video suggested using a leg push when setting up for the jump. Its a slightly different timing (he said to do a leg push just before sending the kite as opposed to the board pop just after sending the kite) but I wonder if the reasoning is the same.

If you ride with bent legs and push them straight, the kite jumps forwards with line tension. I am speculating here that when you land and dig the board in as the kite is rising, the spike of line tension pulls the kite closer to the edge of the wind window than if you just hung on so you get extra lift.

Its a bit like if you have a kite thats bigger than you should be riding but send it slower around the edge of the window, you often go higher than if you send it through the middle of the power zone like you can if you are on a small kite. The fact that its at the edge of the window above you is worth more height compared to the lower generated speed than you might have had by sending it fast.
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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:44 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:38 am
SolarSet wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:19 pm
Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:44 am
Miles and miles of flat water don't hurt either.
yeah that was my thought as well, easy to give people tips how to jump high when you ride on silk smooth water.
This tip about releasing edge to speed up and edge again I think it's bollocks (bullshit for US ppl).
See how he can load up and edge with his front leg almost parallel to the water with his backside just skimming the surface? Can't do that in the chop.

Releasing the edge then reloading -- what's bollocks about it? Gives a very aggressive yank off the water and some decent height. Great fun.

Impossible in chop though...
I'm not sure - or maybe your chop is even worse than the stuff I ride in* - but I'll look for a patch of water flat enough so that I can send the kite with the board still engaged in the water. If you watch the video he does the board pop after he starts sending the kite. So the effective 'flattish' water that I need to start my run up is the same as if I just edge hard throughout.

* I have the short pitched flat chop locally. Typically 50cm to 100cm in height and 2-3m between chop waves. You have to learn to boost both directions so that you have a long enough run up depending on the wind direction (a 10-15 degree change in direction will impact how much run up you get). We are lucky enough to get respite with tide though so if the wind and tide blow together you can get pretty mild conditions and if the tide drops down to the sewage outlets you can get some flat water pools where a sandbank builds up next to the sewage pipes (I can't think why my spot never gets busy like those lagoons in Brazil :lol: )

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby jedi1 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:13 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:31 am
So Anton's learning to fly video suggested using a leg push when setting up for the jump. Its a slightly different timing (he said to do a leg push just before sending the kite as opposed to the board pop just after sending the kite) but I wonder if the reasoning is the same.

If you ride with bent legs and push them straight, the kite jumps forwards with line tension. I am speculating here that when you land and dig the board in as the kite is rising, the spike of line tension pulls the kite closer to the edge of the wind window than if you just hung on so you get extra lift.
That sounds convincing to me. It seems contrary to the explanation in the video in this topic, but it makes more sense to me. As I understand from Anton's videos, to jump big we would want the kite to be as far forward as possible, while maintaining maximum tension in the lines. My initial understanding was that the pop works against this, because for a moment you lose line tension, but maybe that hard anchoring after the pop indeed compensates for that.

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby edt » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:24 pm

Exactly. With pop you want the kite as deep as possible but with sending the kite you want the kite as high in the wind window as possible so those two conditions are fighting each other. The key is that while you are popping the kite is deep but at the moment you release your edge and send the kite it will be high in the window but a kite with great pop with mid aspect usually flies too deep to jump as high as a high aspect kite.

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Re: How to Jump bigger - Part I

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:34 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:44 am
I'm not sure - or maybe your chop is even worse than the stuff I ride in* - but I'll look for a patch of water flat enough so that I can send the kite with the board still engaged in the water. If you watch the video he does the board pop after he starts sending the kite. So the effective 'flattish' water that I need to start my run up is the same as if I just edge hard throughout.

* I have the short pitched flat chop locally. Typically 50cm to 100cm in height and 2-3m between chop waves. You have to learn to boost both directions so that you have a long enough run up depending on the wind direction (a 10-15 degree change in direction will impact how much run up you get). We are lucky enough to get respite with tide though so if the wind and tide blow together you can get pretty mild conditions and if the tide drops down to the sewage outlets you can get some flat water pools where a sandbank builds up next to the sewage pipes (I can't think why my spot never gets busy like those lagoons in Brazil :lol: )
The ocean spots are actually better, because you do actually get those flat spots where you can stop bouncing around the long enough to gets some speed, load up the kite and send it. Back home (depending on the tide) at the beach you can get stretches of 50m or so perfectly flat, with little kickers rolling in at the end. Unfortunately... a decent boost will see you uncomfortably close to the sand :lol:

The lake here is a lot less generous though, you get chop going every which way and it's rarely flat in the same place twice. Usually not so big but just everywhere and interrupts your flow.

Back home there's one spot with small, low islands that have mirror flat water in the lee, and it's just so sweet -- and easy! -- jumping from there.


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