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Anyone use a bag to self launch?

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bkkite
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Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby bkkite » Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:26 pm

Tried this contractor bag out, and its pretty decent


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FLandOBX
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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby FLandOBX » Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:58 pm

I use a sand bag periodically. Mine is smaller than yours, but strong. One disadvantage becomes apparent in very strong or gusty wind, which can move or drag the bag downwind. In those cases, one (labor intensive) solution is to fill the bag fully with sand and then bury it in a hole on the beach for added strength. It's a lot of work but, as you've said, it's safer than a metal anchor if it doesn't hold.
Last edited by FLandOBX on Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bkkite
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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby bkkite » Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:06 pm

yeah, great point, i should have mentioned that. the wind was 12mph by the time i landed, and the bag probably had 80lbs in it which was overkill. honestly might have been less work digging the hole :)

on big days over 30mph, im almost always launching with a partner unless something goes pretty wrong and the anchor is more of a backup

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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby Herman » Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:24 pm

Our local sand castle expert recommends leaving a plastic short handle wide shovel in the bag, they are durable and light, see photo.

More than 90% of my launches are from a bag, and personally I would rather launch with a bag than a partner in 30 knots. In my experience dragging is not really much of a problem. In fact with my kites there may be a slightly higher drag risk at lower wind strengths. I use a trimless large bar throw in high winds, with a small kite when clipped to the CL the kite is almost as depowered as it would be with a mini 5th and I don’t get any dragging. However, in lighter wind with a big kite and normal bar if it picks up it is important to trim in if you are coming in overpowered, if you find that you can’t trim in and sheet out enough to slack the rears then you should be aware that there is more of a risk of dragging, if you can pull in the center lines to clip on just above the trim strap this will give you a bit of extra depower but if in doubt just flag and tether the flag line. I probably average once or twice a year for the need to flag rather than just tether.

The thing about tethering is that you can check yourself for tangles and errant pig connections :D :D :D
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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby PullStrings » Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:28 pm

My sandbag has 2 functions
Help set-up kite belly up and launch kite belly up.....no flipping of kite LE down

(The sandbag in video is for tethered launch )

Took the leash off the pump base and attached it to the sandbag instead
Leash from bag connects to LE like normal giving you the ability to walk away from the pump if needed even if quite windy

To launch :

Sandbag position on LE will go halfway point from center of kite and wingtip
Sandbag weight distribution is 1/3 of it on LE and 2/3 remaining on ground
Sandbag is curled over LE and stays a good inch away from the inside of canopy...no touching

Go and put all your lines/bridles upwind and over the LE
You are now ready to go walk backward and launch by aligning yourself parallel to the LE

And oh yeah
No need for shovel if the sand is quite hard
Use the hand pump foot base to scrape away the sand loose

So to answer question it is yes....all the time with sandbag to self launch LEI since 1999
Over the years it got improved to what it is now

I use a polypropylene white sandbag that costs less than $1 and measures 27 in long x 15 in wide

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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby bkkite » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:40 pm

Herman wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:24 pm
Our local sand castle expert recommends leaving a plastic short handle wide shovel in the bag, they are durable and light, see photo.

More than 90% of my launches are from a bag, and personally I would rather launch with a bag than a partner in 30 knots. In my experience dragging is not really much of a problem. In fact with my kites there may be a slightly higher drag risk at lower wind strengths. I use a trimless large bar throw in high winds, with a small kite when clipped to the CL the kite is almost as depowered as it would be with a mini 5th and I don’t get any dragging. However, in lighter wind with a big kite and normal bar if it picks up it is important to trim in if you are coming in overpowered, if you find that you can’t trim in and sheet out enough to slack the rears then you should be aware that there is more of a risk of dragging, if you can pull in the center lines to clip on just above the trim strap this will give you a bit of extra depower but if in doubt just flag and tether the flag line. I probably average once or twice a year for the need to flag rather than just tether.

The thing about tethering is that you can check yourself for tangles and errant pig connections :D :D :D
Hahaha, I have no excuse for the pigtail issue, just stupidity. It had been a few days since I'd gotten good wind AND could sneak away from my house... so i was excited and distracted. Yet another humbling reminder that its the small mistakes that cause risk.

How does a trimless bar work, never heard of those? In higher winds, I find myself foiling with really small kites so that I dont have to deal with these extra risks. I'll twin tip if a few other seasoned kiters are around to help launch and land.

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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby Herman » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:40 pm

Trimless bar means that you remove the trim strap and have a longer center line. My trimless Frakenbar has a throw of 640mm if memory serves and it is used for TT in strong wind 6 or 5.5m kites. I would estimate that my small kites probably only need ~ 200mm of throw for backstall to slack rear. I set this range somewhere near the bottom of the bar throw depending where I want the backstall. I do this by adjusting the rear pigs, in reality this is just choosing between one of two knots unless something has gone out of tune.

This means that when I let go of the bar the rears have so much slack that the residual pull is about the same as when flagged on a mini 5th. A major safety bonus and it also makes them sit better on a tether. The con is that if you let go of the bar to unspin after loops you have to pull a little center line in to retrieve the bar; or better still learn to pass the bar hand under hand.

If you want to build experience with tethering I recommend you do it in decent wind. Tethering in light wind presents more problems with big kites falling over in lulls/shifts. 9m/TT weather is a good starting point. In stronger wind you might start to get a bit of bouncing, particularly if your kites are not pumped hard. Don’t be alarmed, you can still hook in with a kite bouncing, you can also learn to dampen bouncing by counter movement of the top front line.

Just acquired a 5m PEAK4 and so would be interested to know if anybody is using that trimless?


PS the above is not applicable to big kites because for example they may well need -600mm of sheeting range. If the rider can only reach to 450mm then you need to add a trim strap of 150mm to accommodate the kite.

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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:50 am

That's a much smaller bag than I've ever used. The half tonne sacks from builders merchants seem to be the standard at my local. If you can still pick it up you need to keep filling.

The trick seems to be to have something big and then only half fill it. That way instead of tipping and spilling it folds. These bags were all designed with vertical lifting so the straps often pull them over and you risk losing much of the ballast.

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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby Smeagle » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:59 am

Herman wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:40 pm
Just acquired a 5m PEAK4 and so would be interested to know if anybody is using that trimless?
As Peak has a ery small usable depower range, that would work fine. I would make backlines ~10..15 cm shorter (on small size, more on large sizes), but that's my own taste.
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Re: Anyone use a bag to self launch?

Postby merl » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:46 am

Smeagle wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:59 am
Herman wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:40 pm
Just acquired a 5m PEAK4 and so would be interested to know if anybody is using that trimless?
As Peak has a ery small usable depower range, that would work fine. I would make backlines ~10..15 cm shorter (on small size, more on large sizes), but that's my own taste.
Once you find the length you like then you will never need to adjust the peak4 5m for foiling (no idea if you might need it for mountain conditions though - that would involve much more extreme ranges)
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