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Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

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Thatspeck
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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby Thatspeck » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:11 pm


I have been in a lot of places where the wind was so gusty and shifty (more than 45 degree changes) where a kite would basically just fold and fall out of the sky.
This sounds like you're describing Flag beach, but since you didn't mention the swell from three directions at once, could be anywhere :lol:

Seriously though, I saw you out several times this winter and you really made it look like fun. So much so I've bought myself a 5M to start out with (whenever we have water access again). We often have 5-40 conditions and there are one or two guys here making it look like fun as well. I practice kitefoiling with a largeish surf wing and the smallest kite I can use anyway, always trying to use the water for power whenever I can with the kite in neutral, not easy. The kite is kind of nuisance once up on the foil :roll:

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby windmaker » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:42 am

Thatspeck wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:11 pm


I have been in a lot of places where the wind was so gusty and shifty (more than 45 degree changes) where a kite would basically just fold and fall out of the sky.
This sounds like you're describing Flag beach, but since you didn't mention the swell from three directions at once, could be anywhere :lol:

Seriously though, I saw you out several times this winter and you really made it look like fun. So much so I've bought myself a 5M to start out with (whenever we have water access again). We often have 5-40 conditions and there are one or two guys here making it look like fun as well. I practice kitefoiling with a largeish surf wing and the smallest kite I can use anyway, always trying to use the water for power whenever I can with the kite in neutral, not easy. The kite is kind of nuisance once up on the foil :roll:
When I first sow wing surfing I didn't think much of it, even looked a little stupid especially on flat water. As my kitefoiling progressed in waves ( big wings with smallest kite possible 3/4/5m) I began to realize the potential. When wave riding the kite is always in the way, the wing gets out of the way.

Sure there are drawbacks but it comes down to what are your priorities.

A good example:

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby jkrug » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:05 pm

windmaker wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:42 am
When wave riding the kite is always in the way, the wing gets out of the way.
you guys look like you're having a great time, but carrying around that huge wing seems a lot bulkier and 'in the way' then holding a small bar attached to a kite. when i'm kite foiling, and if i have the right size kite, the kite truly does disappear on the wave.
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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby windmaker » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:43 pm

jkrug wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:05 pm
windmaker wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:42 am
When wave riding the kite is always in the way, the wing gets out of the way.
you guys look like you're having a great time, but carrying around that huge wing seems a lot bulkier and 'in the way' then holding a small bar attached to a kite. when i'm kite foiling, and if i have the right size kite, the kite truly does disappear on the wave.
What I meant by saying the wing gets out of the way is that with the Wing you can truly choose your line on the wave regardless of wind direction (go straight upwind if required) and also shut the power off completely. With a kite when wave riding you are dependant on wind direction and there will always be residual pull through the harness. The closest I got to Wing feeling with a kite is riding underpowered and unhooked with a 3m with on-shore wind but it requires you to constantly concentrate on what the kite is doing.
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Horst Sergio
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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:02 pm

omg wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:00 pm
One more question on the wingfoiling; people are marketing the wingfoil as an ultimate solution for the really gusty conditions, ie. smaller lakes surrounded wih trees etc. but I’m wondering if it’s really true and how one would compare wings to say Peak4 4/5m kites which people also tell to have the best gust handling ability?

Thanks once again.
Hi omg,
as I understood your question was not about riding in waves with gusty winds, but about gusty small lakes. I would in general defenetly say: Stay with the Peaks.

For sure it depends a lot from the spot:
If the wind is far out just in the middle of the lake/spot and complicated conditions to start on land it can be easier with the wing.

On the other hand:
In general I would expect to have much more riding time with a kite with that you more often will be able to start even in a lull having the great ability to loop it.
To me, the closer and bigger the obstacle upwind is, the more intersting the ride :wink: , why I am looking a lot for those conditions:

- Ultimate time 25 m behind a 12 m high building and no way to ride here with the wing as no wind or just a wind rotor, with the 5 m Peak4 flying above the mess. A wing was around on the spot, but most time standing around or riding 500 m far out.
- Penultimate time 50 m distance to a about 12 m small wood in side off shore conditions, even hard with the 3 m Peak4 to get there, just with a bit of pumping, trying to pump here around some buoys, most time had to loop me out of the mess to get back into wind.
One time I somehow crashed into a buoy and the kite into another one :o , happily first moment been able to relaunch the Peak being still unhooked. But then it completely collapsed in a strong shift to unrelaunchable. I was winding up the lines drifted about another 50 m out holding the 3 m like a wing and then reasembled and relaunched it ... and restarted all the silly game :D

Means:
If you learned to launch a Peak from the water especially with out waves not to hard, there is no need to be afraid of having it colapsed, but as you know, it will happen extremly rare and as I think this was your questions: I don't experienced that this happens in conditions where you can have fun with a wing.
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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby stevez » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:32 am

Wings and kites both have their strong points. We're fortunate to have so many options these days. There are lots of pros and cons between wings and kites but just the sticking to the OP's question:

Wings handle gusts really well because you can depower them totally. I'm experienced on clouds and they handle gusts exceptionally well, especially the smaller sizes which depower almost totally, and fly in little wind. I believe peak4s handle gusts exceptionally well and have total depower, and will stay in the air in even less wind.

Wings are better if there's nowhere to launch, such as no beach / trees everywhere. You can swim out from just about anywhere and water launch easily. They are better suited to confined spaces such as rivers/estuaries where it's not possible to kite. Kites have the advantage they fly higher where the airflow is smoother and stronger. Especially if there is something like a breakwater / boats that create a lot of wind shadow at surface level.

Kites are definitely better for light wind, but need there to be at least some wind. Wings can handle big holes, but need the wind to be a little stronger in general. If the holes are too big it can get really tiring, because if the wind is weak enough for tube kites to fall out the sky, you got to hold the thing up yourself. Wings are heavier than the equivalent size kite, as it needs a robust frame to keep its shape, whereas the kite relies a lot on the bridle for this. My 5m F-One weighs more than my 8m cloud and it's supposed to be the lightest.

So I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all answer - it really depends on your local conditions.

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby drsurf » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:37 pm

If you're serious about making a choice, try both options and make up your own mind.

If you can't find someone or a shop who is willing to give you a try of the wing setup and and a Peak4 I'd be very surprised. You should be able to find an opportunity online, or through this forum or social media. I am continually offering foilers a demo of my kites, foils, wings and anything else they may be interested in. I do have a financial interest as I sell this gear but I would do the same even if I didn't sell kitesurf gear. I just like to see people being stoked using the amazing equipment available now. I will admit though that some people are reluctant to try my equipment, sometimes out of the fear of not enjoying their own gear after some of my sweet Peak4/Moses/Axis foil fun :D

Make sure you try the Peak4 what ever you do. The various brands of wings are reasonably similar in the way they feel and function but the Peak4 flies like no other kite. You have to fly it to understand how good it is. And if you get the opportunity to try it in gusty winds, even better, as it excels in those conditions.

I can confirm everything Horst has said about the Peak4 and once again humbly thank him for his original Peak4 thread back in November 2018 which encouraged me to try the Peak4 for myself. Man did that change everything!!


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