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I made the same comment as you Peter about not being able to stay upwind. Gunnar said I was wrong and he was correct. I just needed time on the board with the wing to find an appropriate stance and position for the wing.

I wing at an onshore location, and if the lake swell is sufficiently large, it can make it very difficult.

Maybe it’s an issue for those over jockey size.

Have patience Grasshopper, all will come in time...

Thanks Horst and Gunnar.

Today it was extremely windy, out with a 4 m2 and sometimes more than 20 knots.

But also some long lulls, so I tried your advice, stepped my rear foot a bit forward and held the wing really far back.

Now I could go halfwind no issues, great

I also discovered why you (me) often still end downwind in the lulls:

When the wind backs a tad off, but you THINK you can pump into foiling, you bear off half downwind angle, to catch the waves and pump into foil.
I do this for a long time, hoping I will succeed, by getting a puff, as once up you can go quite some upwind.

But when I don't succeed, in particular on my non natural side that simply needs a tad more wind, I go sooooo long downwind while trying to get foiling

I know for sure, this will only be a matter of time and experience, till you know exactly HOW much wind you need, to be able to foil, so you can go at least halfwind in the lulls, and ONLY waste a bit of height when sufficient wind, to get foiling - it will come one day.

Thanks for the tip guýs, it works.

I don't think longer boards goes better upwind really, BUT, because of their length thus often longer behind the mast also, you can stand further rear when on the surface, so you don't have to stand a bit odd with wing to the rear of you, like needed on short wingfoils.
Meaning it is a lot easier and more natural on the long ones, when on the surface

Peter

Peter_Frank wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:18 am

slowboat wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:31 am

I think losing ground downwind rapidly is a universal challenge when learning. I suspect with the right setup and plenty of wind, experienced riders can wing a little upwind slogging on the surface. There is definitely some technique involved such as bringing the wing towards the rear of your board and aggressively twisting upper body upwind. I have personally concluded that I need to do downwinders until I am able to pop up on foil more efficiently.

Yes, in plenty of wind, maybe...

Dont know, as I suspect you can not go much upwind, if at all, just like a kitefoil foiling versus non foiling - big difference in upwind ability, lost totally in light winds.

So when wind drops somewhat so you definitely can not foil, but still some wind, and you gotta wing it home on the surface - how are the angles here?

Depending on board length also, or? - but we want short fat boards all of us, right

Peter

Actually, by utilizing some windsurfing technique (tons on you tube so I won't expound here) you can schlog upwind no problem with the wing, with or without foil (not talking about on foil). But, it is totally useless to learn (I take that back, if the wind dies and you have to schlog back to the launch I guess it could be worthwhile, or if you are in a crowded spot and just trying to get out of peoples way when starting it could be useful). But, by and large it is a skill for windsurfing, and not for winging. When I first started I spent 2 - 3 days in super light wind schlogging upwind and learning some balance. But, by day 3 when I got on foil I realized I would never be doing that again. The wing is a joy when on foil. Light and easy. When not on foil it is drudgery, windsurf schlogging is way better since you don't have to hold the sail up. I think that is why winging was never popular until foiling came along...

And what was your board volume and length?

Peter

In my winging experience being a kiter for 20yrs 5yrs at least kite foiling, surfing pretty much most of my life and avid supfoiler too it was a bit tricky at first but with more water time you get more in tune, but definitely is a bit annoying the initial learning curve after being a pretty advanced kite and sup foiler kinda starting over a bit,but after getting more water time it all starts to click and then the fun starts, mowing the lawn was never so much fun! The thing I like about winging is the amazing depower you get with a wing compared to a kite I can ride my 7m wing in 15 to 30mph easy and the underwater wing can be a big player too in wind de-powering right now honing my skills in flat water getting ready for next wing chapter of wave riding with the wing,IMO better be a bit over powered learning and mastering the knee starts which are key,and then get a harness line and simple belt hook to pretty much go up wind like you would kite foiling. keep practicing and it will all come together when you crack it especially coming for previous foil experience.Its addictive for sure but definitely need the right tools for the job I’m 225lb riding a 5’8” 125L board learned on a 6’8”140L board.Still enjoy kiting but have not rolled my lines in at least a month or two winging as much as possible!

Same problem here.

I just would add that i use the same board/foil combo for wing and windfoiling (SUP crossover+moses873)
and I find it so easy to go upwind with a sail (actually better than a begginer board with daggerboard) but with the wing is impossible to make any upwind progress.

So If I understood, You need to place yourself further forward on the board than you used to do while riding/pumping the foil?

BOEMIX wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:51 am

Same problem here.

I just would add that i use the same board/foil combo for wing and windfoiling (SUP crossover+moses873)
and I find it so easy to go upwind with a sail (actually better than a begginer board with daggerboard) but with the wing is impossible to make any upwind progress.

So If I understood, You need to place yourself further forward on the board than you used to do while riding/pumping the foil?

Hi,

You need to combine both kite and windsurf physics. What most people try to do to displace upwind, is to pull the wing back like a sail to get the nose of the board to point into the wind. So far so good, but most tend to not move their hands forward on the strut to depower/open the wing up, so it is actually now trying to pull you downwind. This results in you sliding sideways. If you are on a Duotone, hold it right at the very front of the boom with hands very close together. If you are on handle wings, then hold the leading edge handle in your front hand and then the about one or two (whatever is comfortable) handles back for your back hand. Basically you want to have the pressure point of the wing lining up with the nose of your board.

You should stand with your back foot just in front of the mast position and your front foot about shoulder width in front of that.

--
Gunnar

Peter_Frank wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:43 pm

And what was your board volume and length?

Peter

Weight 75kg board volume 95kg fanatic length 5'4" I believe.