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fluidity
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Inflatable wing boards

Postby fluidity » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:42 am

Manta, Indianna, Gong.

The Manta uses tuttle box and I can't see any foil specific reinforcement?
The Indianna has glass fibre stringers, Can you fold it?
The Gong is on presale only and is reinforced and is foldable.

Am I missing anything?

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Re: Inflatable wing boards.

Postby gmb13 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:24 am

fluidity wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:42 am
Manta, Indianna, Gong.

The Indianna has glass fibre stringers, Can you fold it?


Am I missing anything?
Hi,

The Indiana does not have Fibreglass stringers. They are compression belts. The Board can be rolled up completely like any other Sup down to the Foil box.

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Re: Inflatable wing boards.

Postby robclaisse » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:13 am

F-One have the Rocket Air too which has a Tuttle box too. All foldable with not stringers etc.

https://www.f-one.world/product/rocket-air/

We are thinking of getting one to teach wingfoiling - light and strong!
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mike dubs
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Re: Inflatable wing boards

Postby mike dubs » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:46 am

I’d love some feedback on the 2 small F ones. Mike

fluidity
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Re: Inflatable wing boards.

Postby fluidity » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:31 am

Hi,
The Indiana does not have Fibreglass stringers. They are compression belts. The Board can be rolled up completely like any other Sup down to the Foil box.
--
Gunnar
Hi Gunnar,
Best you take a look at your web site and get it clarified if that's the case:
https://shop.indiana-paddlesurf.com/foi ... -foil.html
"INDIANA KITE FOIL 125 INFLATABLE
€699.00
The short and compact Kite Foil 125 Inflatable is not only easy to transport, thanks to its refined shape and rigid construction, it provides a lot of fun while foiling. The two 10’’ tracks for the foil attachment are elegantly integrated and well anchored at the top and bottom with fiberglass stringers. The design of our boxes prevents the board from bending in front of the foil."

When I read that I'm thinking it wouldn't fold reliably. When I watch your video explaining the board you talk about top and bottom full length tension belts and a composite box area. There's some competition from Gong so best you identify it on the website to show the hard and flexible areas. Maybe even video it with the fin clamped up and show the bending resistance of the rest of it.
That said, there are 3D printers running fibreglass reinforced toothed rubber belts quite reliably, it's all about the belt width and minimum turning radius.

Graham
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Re: Inflatable wing boards.

Postby gmb13 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:47 am

fluidity wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:31 am
Hi,
The Indiana does not have Fibreglass stringers. They are compression belts. The Board can be rolled up completely like any other Sup down to the Foil box.
--
Gunnar
Hi Gunnar,
Best you take a look at your web site and get it clarified if that's the case:
https://shop.indiana-paddlesurf.com/foi ... -foil.html
"INDIANA KITE FOIL 125 INFLATABLE
€699.00
The short and compact Kite Foil 125 Inflatable is not only easy to transport, thanks to its refined shape and rigid construction, it provides a lot of fun while foiling. The two 10’’ tracks for the foil attachment are elegantly integrated and well anchored at the top and bottom with fiberglass stringers. The design of our boxes prevents the board from bending in front of the foil."

When I read that I'm thinking it wouldn't fold reliably. When I watch your video explaining the board you talk about top and bottom full length tension belts and a composite box area. There's some competition from Gong so best you identify it on the website to show the hard and flexible areas. Maybe even video it with the fin clamped up and show the bending resistance of the rest of it.
That said, there are 3D printers running fibreglass reinforced toothed rubber belts quite reliably, it's all about the belt width and minimum turning radius.

Graham


Thanks Graham. I have passed it on to the Indiana guys.

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Re: Inflatable wing boards

Postby gmb13 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:59 pm

I am actually currently out on the two year old Inflatable Indiana Kitefoil Board Prototypes at the moment. It is amazing how well they work for Wingfoiling.

Image


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Re: Inflatable wing boards

Postby fluidity » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:18 am

Hi Gunnar, Just saw one of your videos with you trying to bounce on top of the Indianna with it parked between 2 chairs and have to say it looks pretty solid :)

Adding in another inflateable foil board, the Naish S25 hover wing sup inflateable. It has the newer flat mount like the Indianna and the Gong. I'd be interested to see reviews on comparative flex between the Indianna, the Gong and the Naish. At some point in a crash something has to give. Do we want it so stiff that something breaks, or do we want enough flex that it survives but gives us less feedback and a less bound, solid feeling??
My impressions are that Gong looks to have the most rigid mount plate, Indianna still looks great without such a big base plate, Naish may well be too and the others have deep tuttle boxes and aren't going to sell so well unless you are transitioning from windsurfing and trying to reuse parts. But I'd love to hear from people who've tried more than one inflateable foil board?

I'm also a little surprised by the Gong designer's claim of over 100 layers of carbon in his base plates. Carbon isn't cheap so I'd doubt that many layers would cover much area without spectacularly increasing the price, even allowing for some serious bulk discounting. Also, loading is mostly on the skin of objects at greatest strain points, if it were me I wouldn't be wasting carbon on the core of any object.

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Re: Inflatable wing boards

Postby gmb13 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:50 am

fluidity wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:18 am
Hi Gunnar, Just saw one of your videos with you trying to bounce on top of the Indianna with it parked between 2 chairs and have to say it looks pretty solid :)

Adding in another inflateable foil board, the Naish S25 hover wing sup inflateable. It has the newer flat mount like the Indianna and the Gong. I'd be interested to see reviews on comparative flex between the Indianna, the Gong and the Naish. At some point in a crash something has to give. Do we want it so stiff that something breaks, or do we want enough flex that it survives but gives us less feedback and a less bound, solid feeling??
My impressions are that Gong looks to have the most rigid mount plate, Indianna still looks great without such a big base plate, Naish may well be too and the others have deep tuttle boxes and aren't going to sell so well unless you are transitioning from windsurfing and trying to reuse parts. But I'd love to hear from people who've tried more than one inflateable foil board?

I'm also a little surprised by the Gong designer's claim of over 100 layers of carbon in his base plates. Carbon isn't cheap so I'd doubt that many layers would cover much area without spectacularly increasing the price, even allowing for some serious bulk discounting. Also, loading is mostly on the skin of objects at greatest strain points, if it were me I wouldn't be wasting carbon on the core of any object.
That is the reason the Indiana does not use a large super stiff plate to achieve the rigidity. The Indianas actually have a box that is connected not only to the hull, but also onto the deck. This takes a lot of load off the bottom skin. Combined with the compression belts and some other cool internal tricks, this is how they achieved a great stiffness, without creating a stress riser in front of the plate section.

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Re: Inflatable wing boards

Postby fluidity » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:19 am

gmb13 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:50 am
That is the reason the Indiana does not use a large super stiff plate to achieve the rigidity. The Indianas actually have a box that is connected not only to the hull, but also onto the deck. This takes a lot of load off the bottom skin. Combined with the compression belts and some other cool internal tricks, this is how they achieved a great stiffness, without creating a stress riser in front of the plate section.
--
Gunnar
I'm very curious about all these construction methods.
I think on the Gong website it mentioned 2.4kg of prepreg.
I like to 3D design stuff myself (My latest one is a 3D printed foil I designed and printed and am currently cladding in composites: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4513759 )
And I'm fascinated with what is and isn't state of the art. I was researching dropstitch a while back before I realised that there were purpose built inflateable foilboards already out!
Carbon is great for stiffness but the danger I see is delaminating, shearing carbon layers apart from each other. Prior to vacuum bagging my front wing's first layers I hand sewed kevlar, then 800gsm uni glass top band and then kevlar/carbon weave snug around the wing. I think substantial kevlar interlayer sewing or pressing around sacrificial nut-slider channels is essential for reducing delamination risk because the epoxy (or vinylester) resin has much better compression resistance than tensile strength. It seems unlikely that prepreg can be sewn anywhere as easily as dry fabrics. I see one potential method as being casting composite fabric with hard resin around sacrificial T rails for a long box and with fixing holes to wrap fibres through for a long belt wrapping end to end. Then route (or dissolve i.e. PVA like is used for 3D printing supports) out the T rails. The complex longtitudinal crossection gives strength and is inherently resistant to delamination. I'm putting that out in the public domain! :D it's ridiculous how over-patented our world has become!


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