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Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

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pākihiroa
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Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby pākihiroa » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:38 pm

Question (from someone with zero foiling experience of any kind) : What is the rule of thumb for the wing size that would be equivalent, power wise, to an LEI kite (on a twin tip) ?

Is the scale factor 0.5 ? For example, if the wind conditions would have me on a 12 m kite/twin tip, would I want to be using a 6 m wing on the foil ? Or a 5 m or a 4 m or .... ?

I realise that the board and foil size/type could affect the answer somewhat. However any comments that might help me not totally screw up my first wing purchase would be most welcome.

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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby tkaraszewski » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:03 pm

I use a 5m wing in 12-18 knots and a 4m wing in 16-30 knots, roughly. You can compare that to whatever kite you'd use in those winds.
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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby grigorib » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:33 pm

Let's say I need an 11m for 16-22 knots (whilecapping, yet not strong enough to have fun on 9m) twintipping - for same wind I'd need 5m for foiling
When I take 9m to have fun on a twintip in 20+ knots - 5 can still work but from 25+ I can have fun on 4m kite foiling
As of lightwind - if I have to take a 7m on long lines foiling in 10 knots - I still can ride a 15m Turbine on a door, but neither experience would be overly happy.
If I have to take a 9m UFO for foiling, oh it would suck on twintip, I guess 15m Turbine on 37m lines and 170x50cm door.

210 lbs rider, considering no current/shorebreak
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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby adriatic » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:29 pm

pākihiroa wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:38 pm
any comments that might help me not totally screw up my first wing purchase would be most welcome.
I'm also on the market for my first wing, and doing a lot of research before pulling the trigger.
From what I gathered, as a beginner it's better to be on the upper wind range of the wing, for faster progress. So unless you live in a very windy place or are a light weight, a 4m probably isn't the best size to start winging.
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pākihiroa (Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:28 pm)
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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:56 pm

No, it is not a factor 2 (or 0.5 the other way)

It is closer to a factor 2.5 roughly :thumb:

Meaning, on a 14 m2 kite, a 6 m2 wing.

A 12 m2 kite a 5 m2 wing.

A 10 m2 kite a 4 m2 wing.

Roughly...
Depending on many other factors though :naughty:

8) Peter
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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby Alysum » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:16 pm

What's the point of this silly thing? It's a completely different sport....plus compare with kite foil not TT.

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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby windmaker » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:39 am

When I first started Wingfoiling I new that when average weight retards on TT :) could stay upwind on their 12m kites I would be OK with my 4.2m Wing/1500 foil (I weigh 66kg). Lately after having progressed and using the same gear I can get going when they are struggling to stay upwind.
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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby pākihiroa » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:45 am

Thanks for all the responses. Got to start somewhere so I will work with Peter's factor of (roughly) 2.5.

My largest kite (for TT) is 12 m. For an initial purchase, I am trying to decide between a 5 m or 6 m Echo. Leaning towards getting the 6 m (14 ~ 15 m kite equivalent) under the assumption that it would be the better choice initially for learning and I could keep it for subsequent use as an ultra light wind rig. I would likely have to purchase a smaller wing later on. But, fortunately, there is already a "6 and 4 m2 ?" thread that addresses which size to get. :D

If I went for the 5 m I might be able to get away with having just one wing.

One concern is that the 6 m wing would simply be too big. At a weight of just 56 kg it is easy to get overpowered. However, I am thinking that the instant (and what looks like total) de-power of the wing should provide some margin. Any other light weights out there who would care to comment on that ?

FWIW, my largest old school windsurfing sail is a fully cambered 6.5 m race but, if all goes according to plan, I would be using that in much less apparent wind than the wing + foil combination.

A used Gong 1350 foil just showed up in the mail a few minutes ago. No idea how well that is going to work but it was a lot cheaper than splashing out for a new foil. I am really stoked about getting into wing foiling especially the carving aspects. Kinda like the feeling of getting my first kite 12 years ago.

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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby OzBungy » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:49 am

At 56kg I would be starting with a 4m wing. No matter what size wing you have you won't be going in much less than 20 knots.

Winging takes a fair bit of technique to get up on the foil, especially in lighter wind. More power from a bigger wing doesn't necessarily translate into lighter wind riding and can actually hamper your learning. Slogging along on the surface with too much power in the wing tends to drag you off downwind.

You need to learn how to apply the power and how to position your feet, for both surface riding and pumping up onto the foil. Before you work that out you can spend a lot of time walking back up the beach.
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Re: Rule of thumb on wing size versus kite size (for TT) ?

Postby windmaker » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:08 am

OzBungy wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:49 am
At 56kg I would be starting with a 4m wing. No matter what size wing you have you won't be going in much less than 20 knots.

Winging takes a fair bit of technique to get up on the foil, especially in lighter wind. More power from a bigger wing doesn't necessarily translate into lighter wind riding and can actually hamper your learning. Slogging along on the surface with too much power in the wing tends to drag you off downwind.

You need to learn how to apply the power and how to position your feet, for both surface riding and pumping up onto the foil. Before you work that out you can spend a lot of time walking back up the beach.
:thumb: :thumb: At 66kg my biggest wing is 4.2m and don't need anything bigger. Wingfoiling in light wind is also about pumping efficiently and can't imagine a 56kg person doing so with a 5 or 6m.
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