Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Forum for wing surfers
User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1816
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby Flyboy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:36 am

The biggest advantage of kiting is the ability to generate your own apparent wind by moving the kite at the end of 20 metre lines. It's what makes jumping with a kite awesome & it's what allows you to ride in lighter wind & through lulls. The kite - & the apparent wind it can generate - is also what makes kiting potentially dangerous. Kiting with a foil raises the apparent wind possibilities to a whole new level. It's pretty amazing to be able to go 25 + knots, effortlessly screaming upwind, in 12 knots of wind.

Winging seems much closer to windsurfing, with the disadvantage that you've got an unattached "sail" flopping all over the place ... but with the advantage that you can depower & manoeuvre the sail more completely.

No foiling looks that cool IMO. Windfoiling looks reasonably cool - at least for a foiling sport - but winging looks distinctly uncool, like an earlier, unresolved version of windsurfing. However, I can see the point of winging. IN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS & in the hands of an experienced winger it offers something that no other water sport can quite match.

pitbulldoug
Medium Poster
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:41 am
Local Beach: Fortaleza,Cumbuco,Uruau,CE Brasil Ventura Co.California
Style: Wave and foil
Gear: Naish Kites/Wings,ASD surfboards Fortaleza CE Brasil,Kalama supfoil, MHL kitefoil,GoFoil surffoils,Scrivy Surfboards CA.Axis foils,Camet winging boards,Starboard/Airush Wings
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby pitbulldoug » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:16 am

Been a all in kite addict for close to 20 yrs and kitefoiler 4-5 yrs and have to admit have not pumped my reg kites up since may,not saying I’m hanging em up by any means but sure the F*#k digging the winging big time! I find winging pretty easy to learn with right tools for the job and a kite or supfoiling background experience It makes pretty easy transition.its all about water time and having fun👍

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 10339
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 287 times
Been thanked: 354 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:36 am

I tend to agree partly about how it looks.

But it seems to be those of us who are kitesurfers or windsurfers, who find it un-cool looking.

As everybody "not surfers" are always impressed, I think it is because they can see we hold the wing in our bare hands, and fly, they find incredible.

It is IMO also one of the reasons why it is so fun and natural, so without knowing they are right :naughty:

8) Peter

User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1816
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby Flyboy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:23 pm

Foiling looks cool ... if you think stilt-walking & flamingos look cool. :wink:

The most uncool: pumping a surfboard, closely followed by flapping a wing. In comparison, wind foiling & kite foiling look relatively "normal".

The point about foiling is the functional advantages it provides. For surfers, that would be accessing waves/swell that are unrideable with a surfboard. For winging the ability to ride waves/swell in gusty, side-off conditions or downwind. For wind foiling & kite foiling it's the ability to ride in much lighter winds & point much higher.

User avatar
JakeFarley
Frequent Poster
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:54 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Florida Left Coast, USA
Favorite Beaches: Any that are not crowded.
Style: Dinosaur style (Velociraptor)
Gear: Kites: Flysurfer Speed5 21m, Soul 12m, Cabrinha 16m Xbow, 11m Xbow, Best 14m HP Nemesis, 9m Yarga C Hybrid
Boards: Crazyfly 135 x 46 Pro, Cabrinha Spoiler 140, 6' custom surfboard, 122 x 46 custom twintip, custom 140 x 50 strapless twintip/skim
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Pearl City
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby JakeFarley » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:30 pm

Half-assed in that for heavy guys like me, you've got to lose half of your ass (weight) to be able to get up on the foil in light winds. :lol:

User avatar
Slappysan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1020
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
Kiting since: 2004
Gear: Wave Bandit Performer 4-10
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby Slappysan » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:01 am

tkaraszewski wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 am
I'm not really worried about being out in 15 knots. ... 15 seems fine for learnings to me.
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with 15 for sure, but "normal" people will be like "holy crap it's windy!" in 15 knots, there will be whitecaps and chop. In 8-10 knots "normal" people are like "nice breeze at the beach", water is pretty calm.

It also depends on where you are, if you can get a consistent 15 knot thermal wind then that's perfect. For me locally and many of the locations I've been though sea breezes tend to cap out around 12 knots and thermals tend to pull over 15 knots (yes I'm aware a sea breeze is a thermal, but I'm talking about channeled thermals like Squamish or Hood River). That leaves frontal winds which have a chance to kick up strength all of a sudden which is where the real danger is.

My kid is 13 and not interested in the foil at all and my buddy has a wake boat with kids 10-12-14 and they aren't really interested in their kids foiling due to the dangers of falling on the foil. And while I would gladly let my kid learn to foil I see the hesitation in it as I damn near broke my wrist trying dock pumping last year banging it on the trailing edge. Took a year before the nerves stopped twanging to any touch sensation.

It might be a nice setup to put a 60 lbs kid on something like a Odysea Stump 5-0 with a 4m wing, probably never be able to go upwind but they might be able to plane. I would imagine putting them on a SUP would be mediocre, not going to plane and making board adjustments is painful. It's like kiting with a SUP, about 10x harder than kiting with a small board. Just put them on their knees on the 5-0 x 21.5" surfboard and let them rip around, eventually they'll start to stand if there is enough wind.

tkaraszewski
Frequent Poster
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:03 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Hood River
Style: Hydrofoil
Gear: Flysurfer/Mikes Lab kite, Ozone/Moses wing
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby tkaraszewski » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:09 am

Slappysan wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:01 am
tkaraszewski wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 am
I'm not really worried about being out in 15 knots. ... 15 seems fine for learnings to me.
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with 15 for sure, but "normal" people will be like "holy crap it's windy!" in 15 knots, there will be whitecaps and chop. In 8-10 knots "normal" people are like "nice breeze at the beach", water is pretty calm.

It also depends on where you are, if you can get a consistent 15 knot thermal wind then that's perfect. For me locally and many of the locations I've been though sea breezes tend to cap out around 12 knots and thermals tend to pull over 15 knots (yes I'm aware a sea breeze is a thermal, but I'm talking about channeled thermals like Squamish or Hood River). That leaves frontal winds which have a chance to kick up strength all of a sudden which is where the real danger is.

My kid is 13 and not interested in the foil at all and my buddy has a wake boat with kids 10-12-14 and they aren't really interested in their kids foiling due to the dangers of falling on the foil. And while I would gladly let my kid learn to foil I see the hesitation in it as I damn near broke my wrist trying dock pumping last year banging it on the trailing edge. Took a year before the nerves stopped twanging to any touch sensation.

It might be a nice setup to put a 60 lbs kid on something like a Odysea Stump 5-0 with a 4m wing, probably never be able to go upwind but they might be able to plane. I would imagine putting them on a SUP would be mediocre, not going to plane and making board adjustments is painful. It's like kiting with a SUP, about 10x harder than kiting with a small board. Just put them on their knees on the 5-0 x 21.5" surfboard and let them rip around, eventually they'll start to stand if there is enough wind.
I get what you're saying, but this isn't "normal people", this is the daughter of a kitesurfer! :) She's already been dragged to beaches like Tarifa and Cabarete. I may just start her off an an 85L wingboard with the foil taken off, since it's basically big enough to be a SUP for her anyway. She may not be a master of windsports yet, but she's growing up doing this sort of thing (I know, it's blowing less than 15 knots in this video), so I think she can manage a wingfoil.


Dave_5280
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1044
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:40 pm
Kiting since: 1997
Weight: 78 kg
Local Beach: Reservoirs in Colorado, U.S.
Favorite Beaches: Kanaha Beach Park, Maui, Hawaii, U.S.
Style: Freeride
Gear: Switchblades, Contras, CF Raptor TT. Ozone Frenzy foil kites with skis. Fixed bridle foil kites on handles with MBS landboard.
Location: Denver, Colorado, U.S.
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby Dave_5280 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:13 am

If it’s fun, do it!

User avatar
bragnouff
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 957
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: New Brighton
Gear: Alkita boards
Zeeko Slash/AirWave/Scrambler
Spitfire XLW/ XXLW. GoFoil Kai/Iwa
GK Trix
FS Peak4
HB Legion
Ypsilon
...
Brand Affiliation: GK enthusiast
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 87 times
Contact:

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby bragnouff » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:21 am

No one has shown any evidence that wings can be used to climb mountain slopes, yet. Kites win by an almost infinite margin in that domain!

joekitetime
Frequent Poster
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:58 pm
Local Beach: Sherman
Style: surf, foil, wake, plywood
Gear: wainman, slingshot, homegrown
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Postby joekitetime » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:54 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:15 am
Not really, I just thought the title would attract a little attention.

I quite like winging. I am putting in the time on the water and gaining skills and it's all going fine. I fully understand the pleasure of gaining new skills, and the various niches that winging can fill.

I've read in several posts of kite foilers selling their kite foiling gear and putting all their efforts into winging. Really?

Winging is a bit like half-assed kite foiling. You have half the speed and half the upwind angle. The boards and foils are twice the size and bulk and roughly twice the cost. It takes roughly twice as much wind to get going, is twice the effort and you can only handle half the power (which is good because that is all you have access to anyway).

Even the much vaunted depowered wave riding is a bit exaggerated. It's great if you've got the conditions, skills and gear. Half the time you turn onto a little wavelet ... and stop unless you keep power in the wing. It is very easy to overrun the wing in a badly timed gybe. I can get a heap of turns on a wave face with a kite foil and 4m kite in strong winds. It's easy and I can quickly go back and hit that wave over and over.

You need to constantly think about anchoring your wing when you're not using it and everything ends up wet at the end of a session. My favourite winging location has a nice grassy bowl with fence posts to tie my wing to. Even then, rotor turbulence can flip the wing into wind. You have to think about that shit when choosing a site.

So, all things being equal, excluding perfect waves and niche conditions, why would a skilled kite foiler switch permanently to winging?

PS We are half way through a hard lockdown. I have access to one good beach which is not suitable for the winds we have been getting. The ability to wing in gusty cross-offshore conditions has been a life saver.
Put another way, kite foiling is half assed winging. Kite foiling is so easy, requires so little physical effort or mental attention, that it makes me sleepy and dream of doing other things while I do it. Winging, on the other hand, requires more physical effort and mental energy, so it is a great way to break the boredom of kite foiling. Sure, I bust out my kite when I'm tired and don't feel like putting in the energy of winging. Kite foiling is half assed, easy peasy, kinda boring, a good way to relax and catch some rays on a relaxing afternoon. But, then I man up and go out for a workout, winging, and feel much better about doing it!


Return to “Wingsurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest