Kiteforum.com

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:36 am**

The biggest advantage of kiting is the ability to generate your own apparent wind by moving the kite at the end of 20 metre lines. It's what makes jumping with a kite awesome & it's what allows you to ride in lighter wind & through lulls. The kite - & the apparent wind it can generate - is also what makes kiting potentially dangerous. Kiting with a foil raises the apparent wind possibilities to a whole new level. It's pretty amazing to be able to go 25 + knots, effortlessly screaming upwind, in 12 knots of wind.

Winging seems much closer to windsurfing, with the disadvantage that you've got an unattached "sail" flopping all over the place ... but with the advantage that you can depower & manoeuvre the sail more completely.

No foiling looks that cool IMO. Windfoiling looks reasonably cool - at least for a foiling sport - but winging looks distinctly uncool, like an earlier, unresolved version of windsurfing. However, I can see the point of winging. IN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS & in the hands of an experienced winger it offers something that no other water sport can quite match.

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:16 am**

Been a all in kite addict for close to 20 yrs and kitefoiler 4-5 yrs and have to admit have not pumped my reg kites up since may,not saying I’m hanging em up by any means but sure the F*#k digging the winging big time! I find winging pretty easy to learn with right tools for the job and a kite or supfoiling background experience It makes pretty easy transition.its all about water time and having fun

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:36 am**

I tend to agree partly about how it looks.

But it seems to be those of us who are kitesurfers or windsurfers, who find it un-cool looking.

As everybody "not surfers" are always impressed, I think it is because they can see we hold the wing in our bare hands, and fly, they find incredible.

It is IMO also one of the reasons why it is so fun and natural, so without knowing they are right

Peter

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:23 pm**

Foiling looks cool ... if you think stilt-walking & flamingos look cool.

The most uncool: pumping a surfboard, closely followed by flapping a wing. In comparison, wind foiling & kite foiling look relatively "normal".

The point about foiling is the functional advantages it provides. For surfers, that would be accessing waves/swell that are unrideable with a surfboard. For winging the ability to ride waves/swell in gusty, side-off conditions or downwind. For wind foiling & kite foiling it's the ability to ride in much lighter winds & point much higher.

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:30 pm**

Half-assed in that for heavy guys like me, you've got to lose half of your ass (weight) to be able to get up on the foil in light winds.

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:01 am**

tkaraszewski wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 am
I'm not really worried about being out in 15 knots. ... 15 seems fine for learnings to me.

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with 15 for sure, but "normal" people will be like "holy crap it's windy!" in 15 knots, there will be whitecaps and chop. In 8-10 knots "normal" people are like "nice breeze at the beach", water is pretty calm.

It also depends on where you are, if you can get a consistent 15 knot thermal wind then that's perfect. For me locally and many of the locations I've been though sea breezes tend to cap out around 12 knots and thermals tend to pull over 15 knots (yes I'm aware a sea breeze is a thermal, but I'm talking about channeled thermals like Squamish or Hood River). That leaves frontal winds which have a chance to kick up strength all of a sudden which is where the real danger is.

My kid is 13 and not interested in the foil at all and my buddy has a wake boat with kids 10-12-14 and they aren't really interested in their kids foiling due to the dangers of falling on the foil. And while I would gladly let my kid learn to foil I see the hesitation in it as I damn near broke my wrist trying dock pumping last year banging it on the trailing edge. Took a year before the nerves stopped twanging to any touch sensation.

It might be a nice setup to put a 60 lbs kid on something like a Odysea Stump 5-0 with a 4m wing, probably never be able to go upwind but they might be able to plane. I would imagine putting them on a SUP would be mediocre, not going to plane and making board adjustments is painful. It's like kiting with a SUP, about 10x harder than kiting with a small board. Just put them on their knees on the 5-0 x 21.5" surfboard and let them rip around, eventually they'll start to stand if there is enough wind.

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:09 am**

Slappysan wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:01 am

tkaraszewski wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 am
I'm not really worried about being out in 15 knots. ... 15 seems fine for learnings to me.
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with 15 for sure, but "normal" people will be like "holy crap it's windy!" in 15 knots, there will be whitecaps and chop. In 8-10 knots "normal" people are like "nice breeze at the beach", water is pretty calm.

It also depends on where you are, if you can get a consistent 15 knot thermal wind then that's perfect. For me locally and many of the locations I've been though sea breezes tend to cap out around 12 knots and thermals tend to pull over 15 knots (yes I'm aware a sea breeze is a thermal, but I'm talking about channeled thermals like Squamish or Hood River). That leaves frontal winds which have a chance to kick up strength all of a sudden which is where the real danger is.

My kid is 13 and not interested in the foil at all and my buddy has a wake boat with kids 10-12-14 and they aren't really interested in their kids foiling due to the dangers of falling on the foil. And while I would gladly let my kid learn to foil I see the hesitation in it as I damn near broke my wrist trying dock pumping last year banging it on the trailing edge. Took a year before the nerves stopped twanging to any touch sensation.

It might be a nice setup to put a 60 lbs kid on something like a Odysea Stump 5-0 with a 4m wing, probably never be able to go upwind but they might be able to plane. I would imagine putting them on a SUP would be mediocre, not going to plane and making board adjustments is painful. It's like kiting with a SUP, about 10x harder than kiting with a small board. Just put them on their knees on the 5-0 x 21.5" surfboard and let them rip around, eventually they'll start to stand if there is enough wind.

I get what you're saying, but this isn't "normal people", this is the daughter of a kitesurfer!

She's already been dragged to beaches like Tarifa and Cabarete. I may just start her off an an 85L wingboard with the foil taken off, since it's basically big enough to be a SUP for her anyway. She may not be a master of windsports yet, but she's growing up doing this sort of thing (I know, it's blowing less than 15 knots in this video), so I think she can manage a wingfoil.

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:13 am**

If it’s fun, do it!

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:21 am**

No one has shown any evidence that wings can be used to climb mountain slopes, yet. Kites win by an almost infinite margin in that domain!

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:54 pm**

OzBungy wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:15 am
Not really, I just thought the title would attract a little attention.

I quite like winging. I am putting in the time on the water and gaining skills and it's all going fine. I fully understand the pleasure of gaining new skills, and the various niches that winging can fill.

I've read in several posts of kite foilers selling their kite foiling gear and putting all their efforts into winging. Really?

Winging is a bit like half-assed kite foiling. You have half the speed and half the upwind angle. The boards and foils are twice the size and bulk and roughly twice the cost. It takes roughly twice as much wind to get going, is twice the effort and you can only handle half the power (which is good because that is all you have access to anyway).

Even the much vaunted depowered wave riding is a bit exaggerated. It's great if you've got the conditions, skills and gear. Half the time you turn onto a little wavelet ... and stop unless you keep power in the wing. It is very easy to overrun the wing in a badly timed gybe. I can get a heap of turns on a wave face with a kite foil and 4m kite in strong winds. It's easy and I can quickly go back and hit that wave over and over.

You need to constantly think about anchoring your wing when you're not using it and everything ends up wet at the end of a session. My favourite winging location has a nice grassy bowl with fence posts to tie my wing to. Even then, rotor turbulence can flip the wing into wind. You have to think about that shit when choosing a site.

So, all things being equal, excluding perfect waves and niche conditions, why would a skilled kite foiler switch permanently to winging?

PS We are half way through a hard lockdown. I have access to one good beach which is not suitable for the winds we have been getting. The ability to wing in gusty cross-offshore conditions has been a life saver.

Put another way, kite foiling is half assed winging. Kite foiling is so easy, requires so little physical effort or mental attention, that it makes me sleepy and dream of doing other things while I do it. Winging, on the other hand, requires more physical effort and mental energy, so it is a great way to break the boredom of kite foiling. Sure, I bust out my kite when I'm tired and don't feel like putting in the energy of winging. Kite foiling is half assed, easy peasy, kinda boring, a good way to relax and catch some rays on a relaxing afternoon. But, then I man up and go out for a workout, winging, and feel much better about doing it!

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Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss

Re: Winging is half-assed kite foiling - discuss