Learning Curve

[JakeFarley]

I was just wondering about how long it takes to learn wing foiling for someone who does not kite foil. I've asked some of my buddies how long it took them to master kite foiling and it was way too long for me to try (about 30 hours). Any thoughts on how long to learn to wing foil?

[Peter_Frank]

I would think more than 30 hours or more than 20 sessions is not all wrong, looking at others starting from scratch.

But you have kite experience, that helps a lot.

Peter

[OzBungy]

There's two levels of learning. One is to be able to do it. The other is to feel comfortable and push hard and ride with relaxation and aggression.

I am up to over 30 hours of wing foiling and I can now charge around and carve some waves and make most of my carving gybes. I can ride upwind and return to my start point and play with the waves and swell. I am still having trouble getting past the "kite foiling with the hand brake on" feeling.

It took us about 6 hours to learn to kite foil so that we could do it and ride around and have fun. As experienced kite foilers we jumped on a wing foil and did it straight away. It was easy.

Wing foiling is arguably easier than kite foiling because the board is big and floaty and you can stand around and fiddle about and your session is not over after crashing. The board and foils are super stable and relatively slow. You need a lot more wind than you think. Apart from the basic learning you need close to 20 knots to do anything useful.

A couple of lighter wind sessions are valuable. You learn a lot about messing around on the surface and the various ways of getting in with not enough wind.

The best thing I did was go every day. The beach I chose had easy access and lots of stuff to tie the wing to. It had a sandy bottom and sand bars inshore, That made the walk of shame easy and quite relaxing. I also set myself a minimum wind limit of 20 knots. Being up on the foil is fun. Being on the surface is not.

Possibly the hardest thing to get used to is the bulk of wing foiling gear. The boards are big and heavy. The wing has to be secured or it will blow away. A small drop in the wind can mean the difference between foiling and floating. My new board is super light and compact. It's still 5 times bigger than my kite foil board.

[fluidity]

I've never kite foiled but I kite and I used to wind surf. My first flat water session ever with the wing and the foil was last Saturday and was my second on the big new foil I made myself.
Conditions make a massive impact on your learning! My first small foil sessions were mostly pretty frustrating. Lots of carting the gear back up wind and when the wind was enough to get going, the chop was severe enough to make standing up extremely difficult.
Before, with the small foil I was able to get up and have some limited control I was improving on just on my knees. I could get up on the foil but with little control on my feet and only in 20+ knots wind and well spaced waves.
The big foil gives noticeably more stability. I went out again Sunday with barely enough wind and managed to get up on the foil with gust and wave coming back in but I really needed more wind.
Monday I went out again, to local Titahi bay for second time, wind was super gusty near the shore and blowing hard enough further out that even keeping the right angle on the wing in the wind was a struggle. After an hour or so of that and some short foiling runs I gave up on the wing, packed the wing up and tried surfing it. All good until I realised that in my prone position the helmet was covering my eyes so much I couldn't see the oncoming waves. Still, I caught a few coming back.

Now after that monday evening I have a question for others who have kited and wind surfed before winging. At times I was going faster and faster and loosing control... my muscle memory is telling me to do what i do windsurfing and kiting, to lean the board back and dig in to slow down.

How do you effectively slow the foil but remain in control? Is it braking with the wind wing?

And JakeFarley, definitely if you can find somewhere with flat water and steady wind that you can downwind for a while, do it. Try to find someone to ride share with at your level so you can take turns down-winding. Or a helpful partner.
My learning in water with big chop goes something like this: out on knees to other side, attempt to stand coming back, fall, try again, get up on foil and jump off because now too close to shore. Repeat a couple of times and then spend 5 to 15 minutes carting gear back up wind. Repeat...
In water with waves spread far enough apart that I can easily stand it's a different ball game. Get up on board, wait for a gust to stand, try to go upwind as much as possible while heading out through waves. When I'm out a fair distance, turn around, stand up again between waves coming in and try to time the wind and a swell to get me up on the foil. Here's the tricky part... If it's a big wave, I'm going to go faster and faster and very soon feel out of control. I can steer more parallel to the wave but I'm still so new to it that I'm not picking up on things like the wave under the foil affecting it, I just know I don't have proper control. So I speed up and either touch down again or I breach, maybe get going again straight away or I keep going faster and breach and have to start all over again. I like challenges and this certainly is one. But if your conditions are light wind, flat water then get a huge foil, big board and wing and start learning, you won't have the complexity of the waves I have to deal with and your learning will be much faster.

[kitesurfpro]

Hi, I have no kitefoil experience eather. Have been 5 times one hour and the foil comes out the water every time now. See my progression and learning per time with the videos at https://kitesurfpro.nl/leren-wingsurfen ... -begonnen/

[fluidity]

And more progress again.
Big 2600sq cm front wing, 5.4m S25 naish wind wing, my 103kg, 7 foot 6 inch 168 litre board, approx 16 to 30 knots, waves.
Able to consistently go up wind standing up now.
Faster standing up and ballancing on the board.
When the wind is sufficient I'm now feeling quite practised at cruising along on the board with it just touching wave tips.
It's likely helping somewhat that I designed and 3D printed Tough Poly Urethane plastic Coanda disruptors on all the back edges of the board to help part water from the curves.
Lengthening my board [out of the water] controlled glides considerably and finding sweet spots on the board for my feet to be ballanced in the air.
Getting the hang of controlling the board in the air, I was quite surprised that the windage on the board wasn't as bad as I thought it woud be.
Going side on to waves as I'm up in the air, I feel very little motion from the waves. The gliding feeling is sedate, quite amazing as the wind gusts around me and yet my feet feel like they are on the quietest travelator with mild surging.
The hydrofoil feeling to be able to steer twisting the board rather than leaning it is quite different and feels very engaging, nimble.
Tomorrow I'm going to find some flatter water and push out those gliding distances some more.

[fluidity]

Hi, I have no kitefoil experience eather. Have been 5 times one hour and the foil comes out the water every time now. See my progression and learning per time with the videos at https://kitesurfpro.nl/leren-wingsurfen ... -begonnen/

You look at very similar stage to me. Your progression will be very fast now.

[kitesurfpro]

Thanks, I am looking forward to spring season over here in The Netherlands to continue wingfoiling

[dirk8037]

I started Kite foiling an it took me 2 guided session to get more or less reliable on the foil and then may be 3 more get more save. 10-15kn on Lake Como. First on a 2nd gen RRD then on an 700cm Alpine Access. Thought it as relatively easy to go at least straight. Do the Taxi thing very disciplined.

I would suggest that you get a friend to lend you a beginner suitable (!) Kite foil rig so you can get to a level where you understand how it works and build up some muscle memory and reflexes. Driving straight and stearing as well as learning to pump.
Since you can kite it will be a lot easier to learn the foil part.

When then change to the Wing you can concentrate more on the Wing and the ballance.
Maybe its also a way to kite on the Wingboard. Someone can lend you a 1000cm Wing or you can find a 2nd hand as extension to the Wing rig.
Dirk

[Cab Driver]

I was just wondering about how long it takes to learn wing foiling for someone who does not kite foil. I've asked some of my buddies how long it took them to master kite foiling and it was way too long for me to try (about 30 hours). Any thoughts on how long to learn to wing foil?

These are my opinions from having recently learned to wing. Using the correct size equipment, it's simpler to learn to foil using a wing than a kite. A large board/foil combo in flat water where you can stand on the board without holding the wing is ideal. There is no need to "edge" with a wing/board/foil combo and your speed at learning the handling of the wing will largely dictate your ability to foil. There are plenty of people that are having short runs on the foil within a couple hours of experience. That said, the foil skills learned from winging will translate nicely back to your kiting.

The biggest hurdle I see to wing vs. kite in learning to foil is that your weight on the board while winging is pretty static. The wing can have some upward pull, but not a lot. The idea is to isolate your only variable to foil/no foil. With a kite, just cycling the kite can translate into a wide spectrum of weights (i.e. force) on the board not to mention angle of force through edging and this makes learning the balancing on the foil a bit trickier. Either way with kite or wing, the idea is to have a stable locked-in pull from either when attempting to get up on the foil for the first time. With winging, I find the speed of the board just prior to foiling is not that different from when you are foiling and the transition can be almost unnoticeable.

Good luck.