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Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:16 pm

foilfun wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:09 pm
Kite foiling and wing foiling are different sports. In kite foiling, I love the snappy free feeling of the monofoil with a shorter mast. But in wing foiling, I love the hard driving carves of a long fuselage and longer mast. After spending many months winging my 55L board with the Neil Pryde surf wings XL, M, S, as monos and stubbies, I recently switched to the Takuma Kujira foils 1440, 1210, 980. That foil works amazingly well. I’m able to fully drive the foil on the top and bottom turns (lake “waves” in 30-40 mph). While it’s still fun using the same board and foil for kiting, the turns are just not the same because of the need to keep the lines of the kite semi-loaded or drive back upwind to reload them if they slack too much. Thus, the monofoil comes into play for a different type of turn while kite foiling.

When I bought the Kujira, I thought I’d cut it like my others, but I always like to ride things as designed before I change them. I’m glad I did. I did wing the Kujira without the back wing one day. While nice as a monofoil, I missed the deep, driving carves that make winging so much fun and different from kiting. Just my opinion, of course. :D
Hmm, interesting indeed, as I found it quite opposite - love the driving feel of kitefoil, also in waves, whereas for wingfoil it does not mean the same, and agility is key here.

8) Peter

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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby Dontsink » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:12 pm

RRD Monofoil?
At minute 31:00
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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:24 pm

Thanks Dontsink,

and yes, also to me it sounds like a RRD Monofoil is coming, so time to start a list:

- Delta Hydrofoil: 2019 with very first Monofoil with a 0-Fuselage and a Dualuse frontwing; https://www.deltahydrofoil.com/shopfoil ... late-mount
- Spleene: 2021 with first only for Monofoil use Frontwing; https://www.spleene-kiteboarding.com/st ... -wing.html
- Ketos Foils: Prototype since 2019; Have asked for more info but no respond via mail or fb
- RRD: Prototypes since 2020? as named in the video

Tried the Spleene these days,
I was pretty sure for me in the best case interesting in light wind on the wing, but as it was also to light for that, I was forced to use a Peak4 6 m² instead:

In very first short words:
Surprised that I liked the pretty simple fiberglas cut out construction pretty much. Tips are very flexible and sharp, so has to be disarmed first, especially the tail. Also the resistance is for sure significant higher than the high end 1000 cm² I normaly ride, but resistance is acceptable for the very low AR shape and if riding a bit faster that works good, resistance could be lower than that of normal stabi Wingfoils of this size, but with much higher AR and stabi-handbreak. Manouverability for sure is great but pitch stability is very good. I hope to be able to try it again also with a kite as want to try sit foiling, which I just missed today and also the wind was maybe anyway to low. Same problem with the wind when trying to drift it, but it showed already up to work extremly well, as expected for a full flat wing (as already shown here in a video: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2393935&p=1131251#p1131251)
What also, a bit surprisingly, worked very well was the ability of the wing to regain flow, after drifts. Also when doing backflips in those lightwinds with the big wingfoil board, I never managed to creat a stall of the wing when landing, but the wing always catched flow and so could land all full flying. Even if with its size the speed range is a bit low for jumping I will be surprised how it will land on a wing. With my 1000 cm² I can already land raileys full flying. To me it seems a lot about a thin sharp nose profile, which both have. With all my Gong wings I always had a lot of difficulties to land even the most easiest backflips in flight as probably with their bulky nose profiles they most time just didn't rebuild flow.
In maybe most relevant direct comparison with my 1100 - 1500 cm² Gong wings used as mono, the Spleene seems to do pretty much everything better.
Hope for the next test maybe tomorrow. :D
Kitejunkie Test Spleene Monofoil.jpg

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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby nosnow » Sat May 29, 2021 1:13 am

fluidity wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:38 am
geron wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:13 pm
Fluidity, you wouldn’t want to make a wing like this for me (to fit my Moses masts) would you?
Hi Geron,
I did some reading about thickness to chord ratio and apparently these long thick foil types generate a LOT of lift.
I did a new plan section with better resolution, gull-wing folded it again and made it a bit smaller than your dimensions. It's really a low speed unifoil. More pointy than yours(great for shedding seaweed)
Downloadable on here: If you can convince PrftChaos to run the numbers on it(I don't know if he is just going off NACA profiles or can run on an STL model file) then that might give you more use case possibilities information.

https://pinshape.com/items/103609-3d-pr ... ng-unifoil
Not quite your planned foot print and it's a bit narrower (600mm) due to the higher lift of the thick middle section. Only thick in comparison with other foils, because it's 450mm long it can have a low thickness to chord ratio and yet still be quite thick in the middle.
Graham.
Mesh volume:3.365 litres. Lifting area is around 1800 sq cm but keep in mind as above that the extra thick centre will make this more lifty than those 1800 sq cm would be for a high aspect foil and I think you'll get it at a low speed too.
hi fluidity

on pinshape you wrote that you ve built a "thinner version":
Update 16/1/2021 I cut a thinner version of the wing, approx 3/5 of the thickness of this model on my cnc machine. Very nimble, fun foil to ride. Only had the one time to ride it yet, need a bit more wind or wing for my 105kg but it's a fun foil to ride. Fun enough that I've now printed out the 4 parts of the wing and glassed it. Testing after I complete my current on-call cycle!.

can you pls share a file of it pls
thx

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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby fluidity » Sat May 29, 2021 4:22 am

nosnow wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:13 am
hi fluidity

on pinshape you wrote that you ve built a "thinner version":
Update 16/1/2021 I cut a thinner version of the wing, approx 3/5 of the thickness of this model on my cnc machine. Very nimble, fun foil to ride. Only had the one time to ride it yet, need a bit more wind or wing for my 105kg but it's a fun foil to ride. Fun enough that I've now printed out the 4 parts of the wing and glassed it. Testing after I complete my current on-call cycle!.

can you pls share a file of it pls
thx
nosnow, I'd hold off on that for now.
I still think that general wingshape has it's applications but I'm working towards doing them with washout near the tips. That, more than the area will reduce dragginess a lot.

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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby nosnow » Sat May 29, 2021 7:25 am

I still think that general wingshape has it's applications but I'm working towards doing them with washout near the tips. That, more than the area will reduce dragginess a lot.
and comparing the two versions of your foil: the original and the thinner version which is the more stable and which is the fastest ?

have you thought about the hydrodynamics of lifting force but also about the power of the wing ascent due to its volume and density

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DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing.
Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
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Re: Why a stabi, when wing foiling?

Postby fluidity » Mon May 31, 2021 7:17 am

nosnow wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 7:25 am
I still think that general wingshape has it's applications but I'm working towards doing them with washout near the tips. That, more than the area will reduce dragginess a lot.
and comparing the two versions of your foil: the original and the thinner version which is the more stable and which is the fastest ?

have you thought about the hydrodynamics of lifting force but also about the power of the wing ascent due to its volume and density
The stability between them is very similar. The thicker wing has a little more lift and available climb angle but both suffer a lot due to she low aspect ratio in a conventional non twisted wing style. When I write conventional I mean human designs, not for birds. They've had superior evolved tech for millenia.


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