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New Wings vs First Generation

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grtlakes
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New Wings vs First Generation

Postby grtlakes » Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:55 pm

How are new/next generation wings evolving? Is there an actual quantifiable difference evident? I understand the industry may create niche markets eg, wave, jumping even race. However, I am more interested in performance changes like wind range or stability.
If it’s anything like the kite market year over year changes tend to be minor changes.”Game Changers” in kite design are evident but rare.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:29 pm

Winging is late to the party so most of the heavy lifting is done. There has been a move toward thin profile higher aspect wings across the foiling sports to improve glide and pump ability, but it only really applies to the very fit and skilled. Most will want the wing to do the bulk of the work and sacrifice a little efficiency for the sake of an easier ride.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby gription » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:43 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:29 pm
Winging is late to the party so most of the heavy lifting is done. There has been a move toward thin profile higher aspect wings across the foiling sports to improve glide and pump ability, but it only really applies to the very fit and skilled. Most will want the wing to do the bulk of the work and sacrifice a little efficiency for the sake of an easier ride.
I think OP is talking about the hand wing, not the front foil...

Im also keen to learn how much better the V2 wings are. The new DART looks pretty different from everything else.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:08 pm

Oops, my bad

Likely loads of room for improvement there.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby bigtone667 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:24 pm

I think the bigger brands have learned a heap from their V1's and you see it in the new models.

If we use Naish as an example .... They only had a 4m wing and you needed 20 knots if you were a big boned individual .... V2 they had about 6 wings that were better with a much broader wind range ... they must be close to a V3.

If we use Duotone as an example ... They had three wings using a boom that flopped about when handled with one hand but they were grunty little beasts ... V2 of the boom model was a vast improvement in handling and they increased the number of sizes. They also introduced a pump up strut model.... They are about to bring the V3 Slick (the vulcan mind meld of boom and pump up strut!!)

If we use Gong as an example ... Not sure there was ever a V1 ... but they are evolving the product every few months.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby Dave K » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:07 am

I can only speak from experience with Duotone. Big difference between V1and V2. Better upwind , better speed and stability, better luffability. Definitely worth the upgrade to me. Different wings are better for different types of riding

One performance aspect of wings that gets very little mention is “rolling” ability. One reason people don’t like Echo’s as much as other brands is that they don’t luff quite as well for wave riding, which is true, since they have a bit more dihedral than flatter wings like F-one swings. However that same dihedral makes the wing roll much easier in a tack. If all you’re doing is riding waves and jibing a flat luffing wing is perfect. If you do a lot tacking (I tack more than I jibe) than that roll ability really helps, though it comes at the cost of some luffability......

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby downsouth » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:51 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:24 pm
I think the bigger brands have learned a heap from their V1's and you see it in the new models.

If we use Naish as an example .... They only had a 4m wing and you needed 20 knots if you were a big boned individual .... V2 they had about 6 wings that were better with a much broader wind range ... they must be close to a V3.

If we use Duotone as an example ... They had three wings using a boom that flopped about when handled with one hand but they were grunty little beasts ... V2 of the boom model was a vast improvement in handling and they increased the number of sizes. They also introduced a pump up strut model.... They are about to bring the V3 Slick (the vulcan mind meld of boom and pump up strut!!)

If we use Gong as an example ... Not sure there was ever a V1 ... but they are evolving the product every few months.
That the market is segmenting it is very clear, this can be seen via Gong with 6 Wings. Furthermore, the GWA ( who is pretty much the GKA ) has 4 categories already so there will be very different products in the market. Which will be the primary driven by R&D.

Then the wing companies need to be split into two, Companies, which have access to R&D and OEM companies.

the R&D companies are the regular ones Duo , Cab , Airush Fone etc . Then there are new ones ENSIS, Ullman, Smike. ( there are other ones as well ) they have the ability to push new products.

Then there are the second side OEM companies, who buy something to slap a name on it. Then there are companies like Signature, who have good foils via UNI but ultimately is an OEM product. they will now be at a little bit of a disadvantage. As access to the premium product is hard / R&D is hard and getting harder. e.g. Harlem they have a wing and OK kites but are also struggling to focus on wings.

One the other side you have companies like Fone who as per rumour arrive on the beach with 20 to 30 wings to test. This can be seen in the product a distinctive difference and better function.

V1 , V2 will is already a big change, v3 v4 is even much bigger. Saw the new strike in action the last night but unfortunately did not get a ride unfortunately but is looked super stable. The new Stike make the Slign v2 look old again ....

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby gmb13 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:10 am

There will be huge changes coming. Especially with construction and materials.

At the moment there are huge differences between the brands in regards to performance and durability of the wings.

What I find interesting is that some gen 1 wings are actually performing better than most Gen 2 or 3 wings. For example the current Takoon still blows my mind in regards to speed and power. Can#t wait to see what they come up with next.

Also brands are starting to move away from the kite construction towards sail materials. For example Starboards and XT-Kauper have wings out of laminate materials.

It is going to be very interesting in the near future.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby irwe » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:51 am

Ocean Rodeo will bring out an Aluula Wing. Hopefully a stiffer frame, but I think cost will be a factor in it obtaing a decent market share.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby slowboat » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:00 pm

Still quite a bit of variability between brands and versions. In general, v2 and v3 are better than v1. Very immature market. Expect dramatic improvements in the next several years in terms of design and materials


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