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New Wings vs First Generation

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gription
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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby gription » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:14 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:55 am
gription wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:33 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:10 am
There will be huge changes coming. Especially with construction and materials.

At the moment there are huge differences between the brands in regards to performance and durability of the wings.

What I find interesting is that some gen 1 wings are actually performing better than most Gen 2 or 3 wings. For example the current Takoon still blows my mind in regards to speed and power. Can#t wait to see what they come up with next.

Also brands are starting to move away from the kite construction towards sail materials. For example Starboards and XT-Kauper have wings out of laminate materials.

It is going to be very interesting in the near future.

--
Gunnar
Would love to see some pics of what is being developed in this space. It seems like the materials used to make code zeros would fit really nicely on the wing platform. A molded 3di type wing would probably be pretty fast, though durability would be a concern
Image

Image

starboard freewing pro.jpgstarboard freewing pro big.jpg
Woah, that's hot.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby downsouth » Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:38 pm

In theory, it is all good and well.

Canopy is one thing LE and ST is the next thing. If Kauper used a light enough Code foil then he will have max 2 x 1/2 mil. Which is not strong enough at 8 or 9 PSi. The tape and sewing process needs to be changed dramatically.

On the canopy, if he uses standard material is I havier than conventional cloth.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby fluidity » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:28 pm

gunnar, That's one massively powerful looking wing with that huge thickness! Wonder what the up-wind penalty is?

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby gmb13 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:35 am

fluidity wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:28 pm
gunnar, That's one massively powerful looking wing with that huge thickness! Wonder what the up-wind penalty is?
I keep hearing that, but in my testing for racing the thickness of the leading edge was not really telling on upwind performance. For example the F-one swing has quite a thin leading edge and it is really slow and less angle upwind. It is more about the overall profile shape and stiffness.

--
Gunnar
Last edited by gmb13 on Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

fluidity
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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby fluidity » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:36 am

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:35 am
fluidity wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:28 pm
gunnar, That's one massively powerful looking wing with that huge thickness! Wonder what the up-wind penalty is?
I keep hearing that, but in my testing for racing the thickness of the leading edge was not really telling on upwind performance. For example the F-one swing has quite a thin leading edge and it really slow and less angle upwind. It is more about the overall profile shape and stiffness.

--
Gunnar
I happened to get a good look at an F-one swing today before reading your last post and didn't notice anything odd about the leading edge but i did notice the tension strip from the inflated boom to the canopy shows significantly more curve than my new Ensis which is already a powerful wing. It's that same part of the wing you posted that I noticed a similar very deep profile.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby fluidity » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:38 am

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:35 am
fluidity wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:28 pm
gunnar, That's one massively powerful looking wing with that huge thickness! Wonder what the up-wind penalty is?
I keep hearing that, but in my testing for racing the thickness of the leading edge was not really telling on upwind performance. For example the F-one swing has quite a thin leading edge and it really slow and less angle upwind. It is more about the overall profile shape and stiffness.

--
Gunnar
I happened to get a good look at an F-one swing today before reading your last post and didn't notice anything odd about the leading edge but i did notice the tension strip from the inflated boom to the canopy shows significantly more curve than my new Ensis which is already a powerful wing. It's that same part of the wing you posted that I noticed a similar very deep profile. However, curve of the leading edge flow to the back also affects thickness profile from the attachment points to the leading edge as it curves around from the centre to the wing tips. It is the canopy profile I was meaning when I wrote thickness.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:23 pm

fluidity wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:11 am
Snip...

I think the V3 Duotone looks ugly but they will still be popular with the windsurfers who wanted an easy swap over. At least they can ditch a bit of the boom weight. I think it's a better selection choice not to get hard boom models though. Many of the brands have switched to long handles and in my opinion it's a winning choice. Less weight than a hard boom and easy to grab and to readjust grip position in a fraction of a second, the boom is the equivalent of trainer wheels with the addition of another hard thing to potentially cause injury to the board or self.

Snip...
What is the Duotone V3?

The one we saw Alan Cadiz riding earlier - now on the market?

Havent seen a V3 myself, but maybe it hasnt been announced yet.

I know the Duotone Wing (sometimes reffered to as V1), and then the two later Duotone Unit and Echo (without boom and with) so they are both V2 models.

V3, is that the combo with a strut AND a boom?

8) Peter

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:22 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:23 pm
fluidity wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:11 am
Snip...

I think the V3 Duotone looks ugly but they will still be popular with the windsurfers who wanted an easy swap over. At least they can ditch a bit of the boom weight. I think it's a better selection choice not to get hard boom models though. Many of the brands have switched to long handles and in my opinion it's a winning choice. Less weight than a hard boom and easy to grab and to readjust grip position in a fraction of a second, the boom is the equivalent of trainer wheels with the addition of another hard thing to potentially cause injury to the board or self.

Snip...
What is the Duotone V3?

The one we saw Alan Cadiz riding earlier - now on the market?

Havent seen a V3 myself, but maybe it hasnt been announced yet.

I know the Duotone Wing (sometimes reffered to as V1), and then the two later Duotone Unit and Echo (without boom and with) so they are both V2 models.

V3, is that the combo with a strut AND a boom?

8) Peter
Yep.... arrives in March I believe.
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fluidity
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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby fluidity » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:39 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:23 pm
What is the Duotone V3?
The one we saw Alan Cadiz riding earlier - now on the market?
V3, is that the combo with a strut AND a boom?
8) Peter
I think so, unless they make yet more changes. Maybe they've cottoned on to the fact that most people only grab a wing in the front 2/3'rds? And they are trying to maintain a point of difference from the other manufacturer's with hard booms to still appeal to the wind surfers. Alan Cadiz likes the harness loops and wind surfers are used to harness loops. Great for mowing the lawn fast but hardly required for the low drag of a foil when on waves taking advantage of the wing where it shines the brightest...

I think by the time windsurfers become comfortable enough winging to be ready to use a harness, most of them will be questioning the necessity of the harness for waves and the weight of the boom. Just saw a couple of Duotone units go on sale second hand today locally.

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Re: New Wings vs First Generation

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:11 pm

It has nothing to do with windsurfers or not, harness or not, some simply prefer a boom :thumb:

8) Peter


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