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What is more physique/exhausting?

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kitenight11
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What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby kitenight11 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:45 pm

Hi,
a question for the advanced wingfoiler:
What is more tirering?
A) Wingfoiling in low regular wind with 5-6m wing which will be in general heavier and needs maybe more pumping
B) Wingfoiling in high wind with 3-4m wing which will be lighter and less need to pump, but on the other side with gustier winds

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby fluidity » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:30 am

I'm hardly advanced but I'm going out in bigger waves now. Light winds there is the pumping to start but then the ride is very smooth. On long reaches I will start to get sore muscles on my legs from constant holding of angles of my feet and fine corrections, also the muscles on the front of my thighs. Sometimes the lulls are quite big and so I'll be pumping for longer periods and engaging the wing in coordinated strokes with my legs, You can feel a substantial boost each time.

In waves and stronger winds pumping isn't required unless the wind is very changeable which still happens. So yesterday I had some pumping but also I had moments where I would wait for the gust, plant my front foot in a known good position, reach the wing out as far forward as possible, flick my back foot from kneeling to the beginning to stand on the back of the board and as I moved fast from a crouch to standing I pull the wing back and I'm foiling as the board lifts as my standing up slows down.

Bigger waves aren't as conducive to sustained pumping but what typically happens is you will start pumping in a bit of a gust between waves and as you ride over a wave top you are now on a down hill slope and most times only a small amount of energy is required to get the board lifting, from there you typically accelerate and you're already high enough to deal with the next wave.

I'm still using my learner board(though I've designed it's replacement) and with only a 650mm mast but 7'6 length it doesn't fit snugly into a wave when I'm wave riding, I have to trim it very closely to avoid either a breach or running the front of the board into the back of the wave in front of me. Heading out, I've been sailing over waves that could have been a challenge wind surfing but winging I just adjust my angle and ride the board close to breaking tips of the bigger waves. This means I'm also lifting my feet to let the board rise up under my feet and past the tip of the wave I guide it quickly down again. For the first time yesterday I also had the odd experience of a few seconds of breaching my foil but still having control, it was operating in planing mode! and then I got it under water with control again. Like with other water sports the amount of energy spent drops as you get more finesse in the sport and waste less energy doing things that don't work well.

Like with kiteboarding though, I'm already having a preference for more air power and less area under my feet. You will find that the speed advantages of smaller foils push you to go bigger in wing size and to as small a foil as you can start so there is definite incentive to keep the physical challenge there to feed the adrenaline with the performance advantages of harder to start wings.

Just a quick note on pumping the foil as I was once a newbie too and wondered about it, quick back foot down pushes will give a very basic pump but for more power the motion is like this:
1. Crouch slightly.
2. Stomp up but slightly stronger on the back foot.
This will change the board angle so it wants to climb but due to the size of the foil, the only thing moving much is you. As you move up from your stomp, the board will follow you, climbing up.
3. The foil will slow down due to it's climbing and you transfer your weight more to your front foot .
4. Pause a moment, this it your glide phase, it might only be part of a second and then repeat from 1.

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby Dave K » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:50 pm

I’m definitely not advanced either but I would say I only notice a small difference between light versus strong wind as long as I have the right size wing picked out. Fatigue setting in slightly faster is mostly to do with the size of the chop and not wing handling. What makes a bigger difference for me is how much “new” or hard stuff I’m trying and thus how often I’m crashing and having to restart. I can’t stand playing it safe all the time just to avoid falling. So many riders seem to fall into that category (including kiteboarding and windsurfing). I never use a harness and I’m strictly riding flat water for now. Some of this video is minimal wind on a 5m Echo and some is fully powered on a 4m. Cold weather also wears me out twice as fast.

I turn frequently since I hate plowing the field in one direction for any length of time. At 62, doesn’t matter what I do, after about 1 1/2 hours I need a rest!

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:18 pm

Looking good Dave :thumb:

IMO it is about the same.

If low wind and you need to pump, and dropping in the lulls, and if you are on the lower end you might also lose your foil (drop down) when you jibe.

Meaning more work to get up foiling again, and you have to "wait" for wind, which is not tiresome, but boring thus mentally exhausting.

So a bit harder than "smooth perfect" wind.

And opposite, when in the upper end with a 3 or 4 m2 wing, all above is easy, and transitions too, even with small mistakes, and handling the wing is supereasy as no size and you dont get backwinded in jibes either.

But you will also have chop wind waves now, or somewhat bigger waves - meaning when you transition in this, you gotta be way more focused, and you will ventilate or make another error sooner or later, in this chop mess.
Besides as you say, usually more gusty wind in the upper end - but amazingly it does not mean much for the average rider - a lot easier than with a kite.

This concentration, and harder crashes, also means it is more exhausting than in sweetspot wind.

So I would say same same, too light wind versus the small wing size wind.

8) Peter

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby OzBungy » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:35 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:18 pm
...

This concentration, and harder crashes, also means it is more exhausting than in sweetspot wind.

So I would say same same, too light wind versus the small wing size wind.

...
That's mostly true, except strong wind and waves can be joyful and help you to pull off moves. A long gliding gybe pushed by a wave is a beautiful thing.

Gybing in light wind can be hard. Finishing a gybe and having no apparent wind is very depressing.

Another thing is my local wing foiling spot is near a breakwater for a marina. In 30+ knots we had wild woolly waves out the back, organised swells in close to the breakwater, and smooth water with strong gusty wind inside. It was fun to sample all three, or just sit in the smooth water and relax for a moment.

When you think about it, in strong winds a wing can be depowered almost infinitely, and you can sit things out if you choose. In light winds if the wind drops out you're stuck. You have less choice in light wind.

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:37 pm

I checked the heart rate monitor of my watch during a low to mid wind flat water session on my 7m. Low wind heart rate was up to 148 and probably averaged 125, the high wind heart rate was closer to 100.

I checked the heart rate monitor of my watch during a high wind surf session on my 4m. Average was 135 with a peak of 154 ........

I think super low wind is hard and high wind surf is hard ....
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fluidity
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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby fluidity » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:00 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:37 pm
I checked the heart rate monitor of my watch during a low to mid wind flat water session on my 7m. Low wind heart rate was up to 148 and probably averaged 125, the high wind heart rate was closer to 100.

I checked the heart rate monitor of my watch during a high wind surf session on my 4m. Average was 135 with a peak of 154 ........

I think super low wind is hard and high wind surf is hard ....
Don't discount the effects of adrenaline in higher winds too :D

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby Dontsink » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:44 am

I agree with Dave K ,the intensity depends more on you than conditions.
Yesterday the wind was very cold,i was a bit tired and i sailed very conservatively for 2 hours.Very relaxed.I only did gybes and some up/downwind in smallish chop,did not fall even once.
Today i will go battle tacks and i will fall a million times, will probably be toast in under an hour :)

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:30 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:37 pm
I checked the heart rate monitor of my watch during a low to mid wind flat water session on my 7m. Low wind heart rate was up to 148 and probably averaged 125, the high wind heart rate was closer to 100.

I checked the heart rate monitor of my watch during a high wind surf session on my 4m. Average was 135 with a peak of 154 ........

I think super low wind is hard and high wind surf is hard ....

Spot on, low wind is harder, and really high wind also - whereas the sweetspot zone is the most "relaxing".

In low wind another factor influences, namely "mental pain" when you fall (in lulls) when transitioning or just trying to get up standing, or if you can not get going in lulls.
I actually think this is a physical exhausting parameter too, not to be underestimated :roll:

It is literally "gone with the wind", this factor, but at some point in higher winds and chop waves, it is replaced with intensity and other risk factors :rollgrin:

Thus totally different but equal exhausting, low and high wind, but A LOT more fun in high wind :thumb:

Sweetspot for any wing size the best of course.

8) Peter

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Re: What is more physique/exhausting?

Postby Eltreato » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:15 pm

Dave K wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:50 pm
I’m definitely not advanced either but I would say I only notice a small difference between light versus strong wind as long as I have the right size wing picked out. Fatigue setting in slightly faster is mostly to do with the size of the chop and not wing handling. What makes a bigger difference for me is how much “new” or hard stuff I’m trying and thus how often I’m crashing and having to restart. I can’t stand playing it safe all the time just to avoid falling. So many riders seem to fall into that category (including kiteboarding and windsurfing). I never use a harness and I’m strictly riding flat water for now. Some of this video is minimal wind on a 5m Echo and some is fully powered on a 4m. Cold weather also wears me out twice as fast.

I turn frequently since I hate plowing the field in one direction for any length of time. At 62, doesn’t matter what I do, after about 1 1/2 hours I need a rest!

Hey Dave, I really like the behind-the-back tack at 1:48, I have never seen that before!


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