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Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

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Flyboy
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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby Flyboy » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:08 pm

One of the big arguments I remember from the early days of kiting is that it was more appealing than windsurfing because you didn't have a sail in your face all the time. Winging looks like you constantly have a sail in your face. I do notice that winging seems to look less ungainly with smaller wings (more wind), as the wing itself is less obtrusive.

Not sure I see winging as more suited to racing. The advantage of kites when it comes to racing remains: the ability to generate extra apparent wind power when needed. This allows for racing at speed in lighter winds & perhaps more complexity to racing strategy. However, one big advantage of winging would be the ability to have closer racing.

Locally there is a crew of windsurfers who have entirely switched to wind foiling over the last few years. I will be interested to see if they convert to wing foiling this year. To me, that seems like a more natural & inevitable progression than the switch from kiting to winging.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby adriatic » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:25 am

I predict you'll bite before sharky does.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby ronnie » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:25 am

Flyboy wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:08 pm
One of the big arguments I remember from the early days of kiting is that it was more appealing than windsurfing because you didn't have a sail in your face all the time. Winging looks like you constantly have a sail in your face. I do notice that winging seems to look less ungainly with smaller wings (more wind), as the wing itself is less obtrusive.

Not sure I see winging as more suited to racing. The advantage of kites when it comes to racing remains: the ability to generate extra apparent wind power when needed. This allows for racing at speed in lighter winds & perhaps more complexity to racing strategy. However, one big advantage of winging would be the ability to have closer racing.

Locally there is a crew of windsurfers who have entirely switched to wind foiling over the last few years. I will be interested to see if they convert to wing foiling this year. To me, that seems like a more natural & inevitable progression than the switch from kiting to winging.
If they race wings and it is performance based equipment, it's quite possible that they will end up with solid wings similar to the kitewing, which Kai Lenny went faster on than with an inflatable.
Windfoil racing is already very popular - even the IQFoil Olympic class. This was the first ever event - for the 2020 IQFoil European Championships.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby Dontsink » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:47 am

ronnie wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:25 am
Flyboy wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:08 pm
One of the big arguments I remember from the early days of kiting is that it was more appealing than windsurfing because you didn't have a sail in your face all the time. Winging looks like you constantly have a sail in your face. I do notice that winging seems to look less ungainly with smaller wings (more wind), as the wing itself is less obtrusive.

Not sure I see winging as more suited to racing. The advantage of kites when it comes to racing remains: the ability to generate extra apparent wind power when needed. This allows for racing at speed in lighter winds & perhaps more complexity to racing strategy. However, one big advantage of winging would be the ability to have closer racing.

Locally there is a crew of windsurfers who have entirely switched to wind foiling over the last few years. I will be interested to see if they convert to wing foiling this year. To me, that seems like a more natural & inevitable progression than the switch from kiting to winging.
If they race wings and it is performance based equipment, it's quite possible that they will end up with solid wings similar to the kitewing, which Kai Lenny went faster on than with an inflatable.
Windfoil racing is already very popular - even the IQFoil Olympic class. This was the first ever event - for the 2020 IQFoil European Championships.

Here you go, 200€ and blaze a path to glory!

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby Flyboy » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:57 pm

I can see there are some possible advantages to a wing over a kite or a sail ... but if your goal is to go fast in a straight line around a triangle course, does a hand-held wing represent any kind of logical improvement in performance over a kite or a sail?

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:32 am

Flyboy wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:57 pm
I can see there are some possible advantages to a wing over a kite or a sail ... but if your goal is to go fast in a straight line around a triangle course, does a hand-held wing represent any kind of logical improvement in performance over a kite or a sail?
Kites on a start line especially are a nightmare. When things go wrong they have protest meetings... kiting produced more protest meeting than ever seen in history... more time in protest meetings than actual racing time - with wings that all changes.

Safety. This is a bit of an unknown for winging, but if you are going to put kites in proximity ( something we generally think is a bad idea) there are eventually going to be consequences. I know of a youth competitor that lost her finger in lines.

Cost... the cost of a wing vs a kite, also you need less wings than kites. If you compare 3 Flysurfer vmgs to 2 wings with bar and lines the cost differences are astronomical.

More competitors- kite foil racing was a giant con job when it comes to the olympics. The criteria was an established sport with a large number of participants, affordable for 3rd world and developing countries, youth and female participation. Well we all knew that wasn’t going to be the case. Even now 10 years after the beginning of the drive, many female kite racers that represent their country do not have a single competitor to race against. Many of the countries don’t even have an active race scene for males.

Speed wise I don’t think they will go as fast as kites, but I don’t think they need to.

Of course this is all dependent on using standard equipment - but we all know that the idea of business and olympics is to cash in as much as possible so I am sure there will be lurkers looking to twist the narrative of simple affordable fun into something more profitable for them.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby Jyoder » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:50 am

Windfoil racing is boring to watch because it looks easy. Kitefoil racing can be boring too, but at least you have the visuals of huge kites, and it looks hard, near impossible. Then you find a race that actually is good and it’s suddenly great! An impressive feat of technology and athleticism and skill.



Tell me this whole series wasn’t fantastic!

I’m all for winging racing. Maybe it will be more accessible to the masses, but I imagine it will not be as much a spectacle as kitefoil. I don’t mind kitefoil being exclusionary. Most gear-based Olympic sports are. But it’s fun to watch the best of the best compete at dangerous breakneck speed with incredible physics and human skill.

And don’t forget. People watch Nascar for the crashes!
Last edited by Jyoder on Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby Flyboy » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:10 am

Honestly ... I don't think any form of sailing/racing is going to be exciting to watch for the casual viewer.

Kite foil racing isn't "expensive" - not by the standards of any other sailing activity. The big advantage that kite foiling has over wing foiling & wind foiling is it's possible to have pretty fast, dynamic racing in light winds ... & that is an essential consideration for a weather dependent water sport.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby fluidity » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:50 am

I think a race of wingers is a lot friendlier, safer and more compact than a race of kiters or kite foilers. Comparing speeds of the different disciplines is like comparing the speed of growth of plum trees vs apple trees.

Grow or race what you want to and speak up when it's your chance to set some sensible rules. America's cup racing is about raising finance, technology innovations and smart team work. I don't think we can set sensible limits on gear for at least a decade because the gear will still be changing for the better. So it's going to be fun racing with all random mixes of gear for most people. If your local bay has 50+ wingers though and a particular wing and foil brand is dominant then it may be a different story.

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Re: Johnny Heineken Wing Foiling in the San Francisco Bay

Postby fluidity » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:50 am

I think a race of wingers is a lot friendlier, safer and more compact than a race of kiters or kite foilers. Comparing speeds of the different disciplines is like comparing the speed of growth of plum trees vs apple trees.

Grow or race what you want to and speak up when it's your chance to set some sensible rules. America's cup racing is about raising finance, technology innovations and smart team work. I don't think we can set sensible limits on gear for at least a decade because the gear will still be changing for the better. So it's going to be fun racing with all random mixes of gear for most people. If your local bay has 50+ wingers though and a particular wing and foil brand is dominant then it may be a different story.


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