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Gear for best low end

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davesails7
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Gear for best low end

Postby davesails7 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:48 pm

Interested what gear gets you on foil in the lowest wind. Not interested in brands/models, but looking for size of board, wing, and foil.

There seem to be trade offs:
-Bigger boards are better, but if they're too long/heavy you can't pump them onto foil
-Bigger wings are better, but if they're too big you can't pump them as efficiently
-Is bigger always better for hydrofoil front wings? High aspect or low aspect? Thick or thin?

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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby Dave K » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:25 pm

I’m sure you will get different answers on this one. My perspective is flat water, not surf. For me the biggest gear and lightest wind isn’t what just gets me on foil and maybe pull off a jibe or two, but what allows me to still tack on foil and even do some fun stuff like 360’s, even though it seems to feel everything happens in slo motion! Otherwise it’s just not much fun to constantly struggle to stay on foil. I’m 76kg, 6ft, crappy knees (no straps) and fairly spazzy compared to my youngster days. My lightest wind gear is a 6m Echo (soon to be 6m Slick), a Veloce XXL front wing (1900 sq cm) and a 90l, 5’1” FSM wing board. As far as minimum wind required for being able to easily tack on foil, I’m not really sure. Maybe lulls around 8kt and gust around 13kt (?). This is a video of riding in those conditions. Definitely my light wind limit.
Last edited by Dave K on Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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davesails7
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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby davesails7 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:13 pm

That looks like a good time for such light wind!

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tkaraszewski
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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby tkaraszewski » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:25 pm

A big Flysurfer foil kite or my friend’s mastercraft x-star.

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davesails7
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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby davesails7 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:49 pm

tkaraszewski wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:25 pm
A big Flysurfer foil kite or my friend’s mastercraft x-star.
:lol: I've got the big flysurfer kite! The problem with pushing the limits of low end with a big flysurfer kite is the inevitable swim in. Also in the summer, our wind is light and the beaches are really crowded. If I could get out in <10 knots with a wing, I'd be happy.

Unfortunately, I don't have $200k for the mastercraft, and don't have any friends with a mastercraft :(

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tkaraszewski
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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby tkaraszewski » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 am

davesails7 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:49 pm
tkaraszewski wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:25 pm
A big Flysurfer foil kite or my friend’s mastercraft x-star.
:lol: I've got the big flysurfer kite! The problem with pushing the limits of low end with a big flysurfer kite is the inevitable swim in. Also in the summer, our wind is light and the beaches are really crowded. If I could get out in <10 knots with a wing, I'd be happy.

Unfortunately, I don't have $200k for the mastercraft, and don't have any friends with a mastercraft :(
My friend bought the boat used, so it was more like $50k, but I still see your point. 😁 below 10 knots on a wing doesn’t seem like much fun, though.

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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:44 am

Ha haa, get a 6 m2 Peak4 and you can surf in small waves or flat in 9-11 knots.
Cost small money and can be relaunched (or landed) in odd places, awesome fun in this wind.
Unlikely you get a swim, as it can stay up in 1-2 knots of wind.
A kitefoil with a really big kite is boring - eventhough sometimes the only solution yes.

Sorry, that was off topic - but leading to the fact that around here, even the very best wingers, dont ride when its only 12 knots or below...

Even those who dont do anything else than wing.

It is like, 7 m2's are only used by really heavyweights, and 5.5 or 6 the max size for others.
Really big foilwings, mostly used for beginners, as when you advance, it seems everybody goes to a tad, or a lot (some half size foilwing area) faster foilwings - as the glide and the apparent wind just makes everything more fun, even riding waves is not good with too slow a wingfoil.

Having said that, I find it fun on occasion, but often find myself in the classic old windsurf situation - there is juuuuust one knot too little wind to get up and ride.
I go out anyways now and then, believing in it, and the sun is shining, and I try to convince myself it is good practice even if too little wind...

Sorry, no, it is not - it is incredibly boring and a waste of time, slogging along not foiling, and I curse over myself, having been so stupid.
I couid have taken a kitefoil, takes up a lot less space, and a lot faster to rig and pack - and had fun :D

I assume really big foilwings, and relatively big wings (as maybe you can not pump if too big?) are the way to lighter wind - but around here with loads of wing foilers now, nobody seeks this.

Although I am amazed at how low the best can go, with a 5.5 and a smaller foilwing and board - good technique :thumb:

But 11-12 knots, nothing is happening :roll:
Whereas in 13 it works.

8) Peter

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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby Dave K » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:26 am

davesails7 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:13 pm
That looks like a good time for such light wind!
Just before I went out on the 6m Echo and XXL Veloce, I was out on the 6m Echo and the XL Veloce (1600 sq cm) in basically the exact same wind. You would think that the slightly smaller foil would have worked just as well but it did not! I carried a wee bit more speed but I came off foil during tacking much more frequently especially during heel-to-toeside tacks. The larger foil just allowed me to stay up on foil better at my limited skill level, and pump back onto foil quicker if I did come off.

I suppose I could up the wing size to 7m but the idea of trying to heave around a 7m during tacking or things like 360’s does not seem appealing for my size.

I should note that my Veloce foils are extremely thin (low volume) for their surface area, making them highly efficient. I’m sure other brands have “thin” foil options as well (Axis black hPS ?). It’s a parameter that doesn’t get talked about as much as it should compared to surface area and aspect ratio. I think it makes a big difference in carrying speed (glide) in light wind. My XXL is only 1.7 liter of volume (Max thickness of 1.7 cm)
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Dave K
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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby Dave K » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:25 am

Sorry, double post

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Re: Gear for best low end

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:06 am

There are other brands I assume, at least Gong, having almost identical wing outlines and sizes, but some are thin others thick, almost the double volume meaning a lot more lift, and more forgiving of course :naughty:

But slower...

Not totally sure a thinner profile is better, always, as it could very very likely be, that a thicker wing will be much better in terms of pumping - much more efficient as it can be pumped to higher AOA without separating flow.
And it turns and handles better also.
A thin wing is more efficient once up, if you dont turn nor do violent moves, but for pumping, I am not so sure, it is not black and white nomore :naughty:

8) Peter


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