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why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

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why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby jkrug » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:19 pm

i've noticed all winging boards i've seen that have insert handles on the bottom (which is a smart thing) place those handles very close to the mast track for the foil, i.e., close to the rear end of the board. this makes no sense to me. when carrying my board using this handle, the nose of the board wants to drag in the sand. it's probably less of an issue for smaller boards (mine is a 6 footer), but regardless of size, wouldn't it be ergonomically sound to put the handle much closer to the middle of the board? unless there is a technical reason against doing so, it would make carrying the board so much easier and better balanced. and when you're a beginner like i am, there's a lot of carrying going on.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby davesails7 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:57 pm

The balance point depends on how heavy the foil is, and where the foil is in the tracks. Should be somewhere aft of middle of the board, but probably difficult to determine a point that would work with all foils.

Mine does go nose down a bit, but I think this is better than the alternative. I carry it tail first into the water. If the nose drags in the sand occasionally it's not a big deal. If it went tail down, the foil wingtips would get stuck in the sand and trip me up.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby jkrug » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:16 pm

i agree that the exact middle wouldn't be 100% balanced due to the foil, which is why i said 'closer to the middle of the board'. but i believe dead center would still be better in all cases than where they're putting it now. the top of the board insert handle is always near the center of the board; seems this logic should carry to the bottom.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby bragnouff » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:04 pm

Since a wing foil weighs almost as much as the board itself, then no, it doesn't make sense to have the handle in the middle! Having it heavily offset towards the back makes sense. Of course there are disparities between the foils, some heavier than others, but a ballpark of about 4kgs is probably reasonable when designing the sweet spot for the handle. If the foil isn't bolted, then sure the board will be off balance, but it'll be light and you can always hold the rail with your other hand if you really feel overwhelmed by the weight being off axis.
If it wasn't a foiling board, then of course, dead center of balance would be the way to go.

Do you have a board that has both top and bottom handle???

A top handle lets you carry the foilboard with 2 hands, with the handle and the fuselage, so is probably easier to get a decent balance across both hands. Bottom one is designed to carry only with one hand, freeing the other for the wing.

Note also that some handles offer lots more grip and leverage than others, and that makes a big difference in comfort.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby jkrug » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:16 pm

bragnouff wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:04 pm
Since a wing foil weighs almost as much as the board itself, ...
c'mon, a foil doesn't weigh anywhere near what a 6 foot wing board does.
bragnouff wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:04 pm
...you can always hold the rail with your other hand if you really feel overwhelmed by the weight being off axis.

...A top handle lets you carry the foilboard with 2 hands, with the handle and the fuselage, so is probably easier to get a decent balance across both hands. Bottom one is designed to carry only with one hand, freeing the other for the wing.
if i had two hands to hold just the board, it wouldn't be a problem. the problem is you need one hand to hold the wing. and with only one hand left, you'll be dragging the front of the board on the ground if you have any kind of distance to walk. i speak from experience only.

the point is: putting the insert handle more towards the center of the board will help carrying the board. it's not rocket science.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby bragnouff » Sat May 01, 2021 12:37 am

I was speaking from experience too, you know? Otherwise I'd happily shut up.
About 4kgs for the foil, and about 5-6kgs for my 5'7. An aluminium foil would be heavier. To me that fits in the "weighs almost as much" definition. In my case, the handle offset to the rear of the board makes the whole lot balanced, and I wouldn't want it any further forward. Maybe yours is completely in a wrong place, or they designed it for a foil that is way heavier than yours. Or you put your foil completely at the very rear end of the tracks, or any other reason...
Why don't you add pics of your setup?

On my previous board, which was 7'2, and fitted with top handle only, I was carrying it with both hands, one on the fuselage, upwind, and the other hand would hold the leading edge handle AND the board handle. That worked pretty well. Nicer with bottom handle, though.

One comment that I made and that you half quoted was for the case of the foil being not bolted to the board. So it's to be expected that you can have another hand available since you're not going in or out of the water.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby Dontsink » Sat May 01, 2021 4:31 am

I do not know what board&foil combo you ride to have this problem.

My Naish Hover 85 balances fine,handle is pretty close to mast tracks.

On a second hand Indiana 105 (6'2/ 7kg) i had to add a bottom handle, the V1 version did not have it.I placed it at the balance point with foil mounted, it is also pretty close to the mast tracks,nowhere near the middle.

And i use 100% carbon foils mounted very forward.With heavier foils handle would be even further back.

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 01, 2021 10:46 am

If you have a reasonably light board, which we all seek also beginners, then your foil can make it "tail heavy" even if handle (hole) is close to the mast, if you use a typical alloy foil with alloy fuselage (heavy)
And if you use a superlight carbon foil, it could be "nose heavy".

So yes, there is a reason why it is not centered, it should NEVER be centered, thats for sure - unless it is also used for SUP without a foil ha haa - then it should have two different carrying holes in fact :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby fluidity » Sun May 02, 2021 7:35 am

Crikey jkrug, you put in a complaint on a public thread and when people explain why and that it works for them, you tell them they are wrong!
My F-one inflateable 7'6 board I made a 3D printed handle and fitted the centre of it about 200mm forward of the front of the mast, on the 5'6 board I made, I fited a 3D printed inside handle about 150mm centre in front of the mast front and that also ballances just fine!
jkrug, its you that is out of balance, not your board !

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Re: why put the bottom handle near the end of the board?

Postby jkrug » Sun May 02, 2021 12:50 pm

fluidity wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:35 am
Crikey jkrug, you put in a complaint on a public thread and when people explain why and that it works for them, you tell them they are wrong!
My F-one inflateable 7'6 board I made a 3D printed handle and fitted the centre of it about 200mm forward of the front of the mast, on the 5'6 board I made, I fited a 3D printed inside handle about 150mm centre in front of the mast front and that also ballances just fine!
jkrug, its you that is out of balance, not your board !
i opened this topic because i was hoping designers would reconsider where they put the insert handle on the bottom. that's all. if where it is works for you and everyone else, that doesn't negate the fact that it doesn't work for me (though it likely means no designer will change what they're doing). i haven't told anyone they're wrong about their experiences, i'm only telling about mine. if you want to argue with me about what happens to me when i try to carry my board, then maybe it's you that is out of balance.


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