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Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

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jumptheshark
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:27 am

I feel sorry for you.

I still kitefoil and to be absolutely honest find it kicks the shit out of any an all other wind driven sports in this region.

Not even close.

low end, top end. Everywhere in between. Doesn't matter. The simple functionality of kite foiling at the current state of the art is sooooo far superior.

It just is.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Flyboy » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:50 am

Eltreato wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:27 pm
I was out windfoiling last weekend. After going way upwind I felt the wind backing off and headed downwind for home. I made it in and went home, no big deal. I found out later that someone I knew who was kitefoiling well upwind of where I was, ended up swimming for half an hour until he was picked up by the local sailing club rescue boat. The wind dropped, and I mean dropped to about 2 knots. Try keeping a kite in the air in that. He is a damn good kitefoiler too. This is why I stopped kitefoiling. Neither me or a nearby wingfoiler had any drama getting back in to shore. If lived somewhere with less shit wind I'd probably still kitefoil.
You "made it in" - how? Foiling or paddling? If you were foiling then there's no question the kitefoiler could have made it in. Just bad judgement on his part not to head back earlier.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Mikkelza » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:54 am

Flyboy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:50 am
Eltreato wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:27 pm
I was out windfoiling last weekend. After going way upwind I felt the wind backing off and headed downwind for home. I made it in and went home, no big deal. I found out later that someone I knew who was kitefoiling well upwind of where I was, ended up swimming for half an hour until he was picked up by the local sailing club rescue boat. The wind dropped, and I mean dropped to about 2 knots. Try keeping a kite in the air in that. He is a damn good kitefoiler too. This is why I stopped kitefoiling. Neither me or a nearby wingfoiler had any drama getting back in to shore. If lived somewhere with less shit wind I'd probably still kitefoil.
You "made it in" - how? Foiling or paddling? If you were foiling then there's no question the kitefoiler could have made it in. Just bad judgement on his part not to head back earlier.
Good point. I am thinking the same. Due to better low-end options when kite-foiling: If possible to wing foil, it will also be possible to kite foil. If not possible to kite foil, it is not possible to wing foil.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby UKSurf » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:48 pm

I have not Wing foiled but I would say it probably has the edge over kite foiling in waves and ocean swell. If you live in a location with nice waves and consistent winds then wing foiling might be the better choice especially if launches are difficult. There is a lot of marketing hype around wing foiling. Kite foiling probably wins hands down in lighter winds and is probably the ultimate light wind water craft - do you think there is anything wind powered on the water that would be faster than a Kite Foil in 6-8 knots?

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby OzBungy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:12 am

Flyboy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:50 am
....

You "made it in" - how? Foiling or paddling? If you were foiling then there's no question the kitefoiler could have made it in. Just bad judgement on his part not to head back earlier.
If the kite foiler dropped the kite and could not relaunch then it's possible the wing foiler could have foiled back.

Notionally if the wind is strong enough for the wing foiler to get going then a kite could relaunch. It depends on conditions, timing, skill and luck.

In the past I might kite surf/foil in cross-off conditions as a calculated risk. Riding conservatively and decades of experience served to mitigate the risks. I am somewhat more comfortable to wing foil in cross-off conditions.

Note that cross-off is a localised term. I kite at a couple of beaches where the start point is cross-off, but the coast bends around further downwind. There's always somewhere to land downwind, there might just be a bit of a walk. Less experienced people often get into difficulty and lose gear or have dramas getting back in because they panic in the offshore conditions. As an experienced rider I have sometimes waited out a lull, relaunched and rode back upwind to the beach. The performance of a kite and foil make the upwind blast great fun. The key thing is having a plan and the sense to implement it.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Flyboy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:42 am

OzBungy wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:12 am
Flyboy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:50 am
....

You "made it in" - how? Foiling or paddling? If you were foiling then there's no question the kitefoiler could have made it in. Just bad judgement on his part not to head back earlier.
If the kite foiler dropped the kite and could not relaunch then it's possible the wing foiler could have foiled back.

Notionally if the wind is strong enough for the wing foiler to get going then a kite could relaunch. It depends on conditions, timing, skill and luck.

In the past I might kite surf/foil in cross-off conditions as a calculated risk. Riding conservatively and decades of experience served to mitigate the risks. I am somewhat more comfortable to wing foil in cross-off conditions.

Note that cross-off is a localised term. I kite at a couple of beaches where the start point is cross-off, but the coast bends around further downwind. There's always somewhere to land downwind, there might just be a bit of a walk. Less experienced people often get into difficulty and lose gear or have dramas getting back in because they panic in the offshore conditions. As an experienced rider I have sometimes waited out a lull, relaunched and rode back upwind to the beach. The performance of a kite and foil make the upwind blast great fun. The key thing is having a plan and the sense to implement it.
Yeah - I get it that there are circumstances where a wing foiler might be able to make it back in when a kite foiler is stuck ... but mostly that would suggest the kite foiler misjudged the conditions & stayed out too long. I feel that's most likely to happen to someone kiting with a big race kite, with the ability to foil in 5 or 6 knots. The wind drops a knot or two & they're stuck & may not be able to relaunch even if the wind picks back up a few knots.

Conditions vary so much around the world that it's hard to generalize, but locally, I don't ever have cross-off conditions that I would consider going out in ... or even would be be able to get off the shoreline.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby juandesooka » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:56 am

Every time I read this tread it bugs me. It is the "versus". Makes it yet another kiteforum pissing contest ... and maybe I've been around too long but <YAWN> ... seriously, same half dozen people saying the same thing over and over and over.

Change the thread to Wingfoiling AND kitefoiling. Why choose. If the waves are good then wing. If it's flat and light then kite. Or better yet, rig both and switch off, get a little taste of both. Or go ride your skateboard or play with xbox, or whatever happens to turn your dial. This is all about having fun, so either help to fuel my stoke or get out the way. ;-)

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby OzBungy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:39 am

^^^ because the company and fan based marketing for wing foiling makes all sorts of half-baked claims that could be true in certain circumstances, but are generally false.

Everybody buys a wing foil, 4m wing, and some kind of small SUP-sized board and expects to ride in <10 knots, with their child and their grandmother, while carving waves, and just paddle in if anything goes wrong.

It's super safe and all kite sports are dangerous because of lines and swimming in and getting dragged to your death.

If they toned back the dodgy claims and stop exaggerating the alleged negatives of kite sports then there wouldn't be a problem.

Wing foiling is a perfectly decent way of having fun with wind and water. It doesn't need the constant exaggeration of how good it is.

What will be interesting to see is that among our local wing foiling crew, with the exception of a few hotshots, nobody is really progressing. There's people who have been doing it for a year and still can't get on the foil. The vast majority can't properly complete a gybe. Thousands are being spent upgrading equipment and lots of chat about what is the best wing/foil/board. It will be interesting to see how long they can sustain enthusiasm with so little reward, other than the pleasure of messing about in the water.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby mr_daruman » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:49 pm

To be fair to winging in light winds. Im commonly riding 5~7 knots on a 2400 foil with 5.5m2 wing in Side-off shore. Using a 50cm fuselage, and a tiny stabi; everything is super nimble and reactive. 5'5 x 25 board weights 5kg , Im 65kg. Busy windsurfing/kitesurfing area. NOBODY else out. Not even under powered unless really close to the shore.
One kiter came but could not get is ram-air up due to the light side/side-off conditions which essentially is nearly 0 knot wind near the shore.
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Pierrot » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:28 pm

I can confirm all the light wind claims are a lie :lol: at least until you get the proper technic!

I started winging last WE. Mainly for the fun of learning something new and be able to access spots and wind directions that are no good for kiting.
I was foiling both sides after 30mn. First 2 sessions were fine 15-20kt on a 5.5m and 1850cm2 front wing quite powered most of the time. Lots of fun.
3rd session started in 12-15knt dying to below 10. Water start were super frustrating. And we spent most of the downwind sitting on the board and slowly drifting to the arrival spot. Very painful.

My conclusion: until I master pumping and can gibe, i’ll stick to kite foiling below 15knt
But winging is fun!


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