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Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

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OzBungy
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby OzBungy » Fri May 28, 2021 12:53 am

Eltreato wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 12:11 am
Which one would I rather be stuck a kilometer off shore with when the wind dies, a wingfoil or kitefoil setup? I'll take the wingfoil any day which is pretty much why I don't kite that much anymore unless it's too shallow to wingfoil.
I am finding that wing foilers are doing super long runs out to sea to gain ground upwind. Wings are so slow it takes me up to an hour to go 3-4-5km upwind when I can do the same run in a single beat in 15 minutes.

I never go more than 500m out to sea on a kite foil. I tend to follow a similar rule with wing foiling and just accept that I will spend an hour going upwind. It gives me the chance to run downwind and do ins-and-outs on the way back.

I rarely see other wing foilers doing upwind runs. They tend to congregate in a single spot and just ride back and forth. I regularly see people riding 2km out to sea. I suspect in part it is because they're not strong on gybing. It could also be that windsurfer thing of "go straight as fast as you can for as long as you can then crash". ;-)

Absolutely it is *usually* better being on a wing when you run out of wind. You can sit and drift back downwind and pump up onto the foil if a gust comes along. My kite foiling mate broke a line and dragged 2km back to our starting beach. The wind also lulled and I sat on the wing board and chatted as we went. When the wind came back I checked on him from time to time. He was able to drag all the way back to our launch beach.

Thing is, you are hugely more likely to get stuck without wind with a wing. That's the point of this thread. Two knots wind drop and you're stuck. It almost never happens on a kite foil. If it does then bum dragging (sitting in the water working the kite to drag you in), self-rescue, or simply wait for a gust to relaunch. Even then, I am only a few hundred meters from the beach. It's pretty easy to swim/paddle that short distance.

One of my worst wing foiling experiences was being 2km out to sea chasing a gust. Paddling and seeming to get no closer to land and being swept down the coast to less favourable landing options is not fun. After about 45 minutes I picked up a gust and rode home. That's never happened with a kite and foil. The worst is dropping the kite in too light winds and having to self-rescue. I have over 1000 kite foiling hours and several thousand kite boarding hours. I have way more "shit I'm stuck" episodes with wing foiling.

Once you get back to the beach the adventure is not over. I have walked 3km with a kite foil board under my arm and a packed up kite. It's easy. Most walks of shame I can just fly the kite as I walk. Try that with an 80-100ltr wing foil board with a 2000cm foil hanging off the bottom of it.
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Dontsink
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Dontsink » Fri May 28, 2021 5:29 am

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Last edited by Dontsink on Fri May 28, 2021 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Dontsink » Fri May 28, 2021 5:29 am

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Dontsink » Fri May 28, 2021 5:29 am

A wingfoil goes upwind at a VMG of about 5kt.This is taken from GPS tracks other people have posted,but it fits with my up/downwind sessions.
Unless there is a big current an hour upwind with reasonable powered conditions should get you about 9km upwind.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby jumptheshark » Fri May 28, 2021 11:20 am

I have yet to get outpointed by a wing. Not even close really, and I foil with Peaks. They can get way upwind no doubt, but it takes half the time on a kite. The spot I see the best wingers at is a windsurfing spot and I think they are mostly ex windsurfers, so they a pleased as punch with their new found angles.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Dontsink » Fri May 28, 2021 12:31 pm

Kitefoils are upwind monsters...both in angle and speed.And Race Kitefoils are on another planet.

I do not think wingfoils will ever get too close, a kite is a V8 engine and a Wing is a lawnmower :)

But when my kitefoiling buddys watch me having a ball fooling around clumsily with wind waves they get this pensative look, many will bite the poison apple i think.
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby dirk8037 » Sat May 29, 2021 4:18 pm

All that performance thing is for me quite uninteresting.
Its all about the hope for easier access.
Kite Spots here are rare and restricted. Entry is iften a nightmare with dozen if people queueing up.
There is no ohh why not make a short breake or check if that fin set works better.

So if i have the chance on using also the windsurf spots or spots with mean conditions you do not want to kite at. then its cool.

For the low low end I rather paddle back then swim with lines and board.
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Flyboy » Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:23 pm

Like everything discussed on Kiteforum it's heavily dependent on local conditions. People relate to the conditions they regularly experience, which may be entirely different from what other people experience at their local spot. A case in point is the video showing wingfoilers under the Golden Gate Bridge. Here's another amazing video I came across recently. Wing foiling on the North Shore of Oahu: what looks to be pretty modest side-off wind & the most incredible, perfect swells with a massive swell period. I have never experienced conditions like this ... not even close. Wing foiling makes perfect sense if you have conditions like that!

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dirk8037
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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby dirk8037 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:47 am

Can anybody confirm my guess that this is VLand where the swell just starts to touch the outer reef.
I have seen that place it with a couple more feet which was a complete different game.
It looks like paradise and is mostlikely as rare.

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Re: Wingfoil versus Kitefoil?

Postby Eltreato » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:27 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 12:53 am
Eltreato wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 12:11 am
Which one would I rather be stuck a kilometer off shore with when the wind dies, a wingfoil or kitefoil setup? I'll take the wingfoil any day which is pretty much why I don't kite that much anymore unless it's too shallow to wingfoil.
I am finding that wing foilers are doing super long runs out to sea to gain ground upwind. Wings are so slow it takes me up to an hour to go 3-4-5km upwind when I can do the same run in a single beat in 15 minutes.

I never go more than 500m out to sea on a kite foil. I tend to follow a similar rule with wing foiling and just accept that I will spend an hour going upwind. It gives me the chance to run downwind and do ins-and-outs on the way back.

I rarely see other wing foilers doing upwind runs. They tend to congregate in a single spot and just ride back and forth. I regularly see people riding 2km out to sea. I suspect in part it is because they're not strong on gybing. It could also be that windsurfer thing of "go straight as fast as you can for as long as you can then crash". ;-)

Absolutely it is *usually* better being on a wing when you run out of wind. You can sit and drift back downwind and pump up onto the foil if a gust comes along. My kite foiling mate broke a line and dragged 2km back to our starting beach. The wind also lulled and I sat on the wing board and chatted as we went. When the wind came back I checked on him from time to time. He was able to drag all the way back to our launch beach.

Thing is, you are hugely more likely to get stuck without wind with a wing. That's the point of this thread. Two knots wind drop and you're stuck. It almost never happens on a kite foil. If it does then bum dragging (sitting in the water working the kite to drag you in), self-rescue, or simply wait for a gust to relaunch. Even then, I am only a few hundred meters from the beach. It's pretty easy to swim/paddle that short distance.

One of my worst wing foiling experiences was being 2km out to sea chasing a gust. Paddling and seeming to get no closer to land and being swept down the coast to less favourable landing options is not fun. After about 45 minutes I picked up a gust and rode home. That's never happened with a kite and foil. The worst is dropping the kite in too light winds and having to self-rescue. I have over 1000 kite foiling hours and several thousand kite boarding hours. I have way more "shit I'm stuck" episodes with wing foiling.

Once you get back to the beach the adventure is not over. I have walked 3km with a kite foil board under my arm and a packed up kite. It's easy. Most walks of shame I can just fly the kite as I walk. Try that with an 80-100ltr wing foil board with a 2000cm foil hanging off the bottom of it.
I was out windfoiling last weekend. After going way upwind I felt the wind backing off and headed downwind for home. I made it in and went home, no big deal. I found out later that someone I knew who was kitefoiling well upwind of where I was, ended up swimming for half an hour until he was picked up by the local sailing club rescue boat. The wind dropped, and I mean dropped to about 2 knots. Try keeping a kite in the air in that. He is a damn good kitefoiler too. This is why I stopped kitefoiling. Neither me or a nearby wingfoiler had any drama getting back in to shore. If lived somewhere with less shit wind I'd probably still kitefoil.


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